| Author |
Message |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 558
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 21, 2020 - 08:56 pm: |    |
I used to have a sheet showing how to layout a spec-data sheet and with suggested titles for paragraphs. (I have a client that wants to use the format but is doing so incorrectly.)
If you have a copy, please send it to me at michael@chusid.com.
(For those of you young enough to not remember Spec-Data, see http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/3077/2167.html)
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru |
BH (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2020 - 01:15 pm: | |
I don't know if I can help you Michael as I don't have a copy of what you're looking for, but thank you for the link to the old discussion on Spec-Data. I've been thinking about this type of thing and wondering why CSI doesn't have a standard format for companies to follow. The answer is apparently they did, but it didn't take off, in part to cost if Colin's old post is correct.
I still run across manufacturers using the formatting, or something close to it for their data sheets. I've even started compiling a list of manufacturers that I've found using it, adding new ones as I discover them. Not sure exactly why. I was hoping to chase it back to the source at some point and your post has helped me do that. |
Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP, AIA
Senior Member
Username: rjray
Post Number: 200
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2020 - 03:56 pm: | |
If my memory is correct, not only did CSI created the Spec-Data sheet format, CSI collected these sheets from manufactures and sent them out to CSI members once every quarter, or some regular time period.
Of course, those were far different days for CSI, with a far different leadership and focus than exist today. |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 559
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 23, 2020 - 01:02 am: | |
Thank you to everyone that commented on this and sent me examples of Spec-Data sheets.
After crawling around in the dark, spider-infested crevices of my archives, somewhere under the notes from my architectural school design projects and applications for unemployment insurance during previous recessions, I found what I was looking for - The CSI Format for Spec-Data!
It is still a great format.
Construction Specification Canada had a similar format called ProductFormat. David Watson sent me the following message in June 2020.
"As you might have surmised, ProductFormat was the brainchild of Digicon. We, like you, wanted to promote this concept of organizing product information in a very similar fashion as the spec section. The idea being that specifiers are most likely to be reviewing that data and it would improve usefulness if they were organized in parallel. We wanted to donate it to CSC and brand it as such, but it seems they didn’t feel as strongly as we did about this concept so they never really embraced it.
"Attached is the latest copy we published. We did consider doing an update, but never really followed through. The most contentious was that it was often confusing to distinguish what falls under ‘selection criteria’ and what falls under ‘attributes and characteristics’ – there’s a fine distinction (sometimes fuzzy even for us).
"This document should probably be updated now given some technology advancements here now and coming. If you have ideas about how we could encourage the industry to adopt this concept, I’m all ears!"
Does anyone want to collaborate to create a new standard - with or without CSI or CSC?
The scans are too big to attach here, but you can download them from me at:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tt4t76tqgwdraqv/AABsef9gloh_KbrDmA8aQrzna?dl=0
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2020 - 06:19 pm: | |
The feature of Spec-Data that I really appreciated was the LIMITATIONS article.
When I didn't have the time or luxury of a good product rep to evaluate the intended application of the product, having Spec-Data was a godsend.
Michael, I would be happy to collaborate if I believed that there was the "right bait" to get manufacturers to bite and sign up. |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 562
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2020 - 08:12 pm: | |
To: Unregistered Guest
Send your contact info to me at michael@chusid.com
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru |
Ed Storer
Senior Member
Username: ed_storer
Post Number: 64
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 10:41 pm: | |
Maybe Institute should try and revive it in place of some of the less successful formats like Green Format.
Ed Storer, CSI Member Emeritus |
BH (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, September 28, 2020 - 01:56 am: | |
Ed, given that I've spent the better part of a weekend working from incomplete information from a sustainability consultant to specify the correct declarations and reports for LEED v4.1 compliance on a project, I think GreenFormat might be due for a refresh as well.
There was a 4specs thread within the last year(?) that discussed that online Mindful Materials database. Seemed there was some confusion about how product data and sustainability information was input into the database (manufacturer input vs. automated retrieval from manufacturer websites). GreenFormat and Spec-Data both could work well to streamline that sort of data entry and/or retrieval. |
jospecs (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, September 28, 2020 - 02:10 pm: | |
if i recall, spec data sheets were started by the los angeles chapter in the early 70's then after 2 or 3 years the institute took it over. ralph lavenberg and charlie denisac were leadersin their development. |
G. Wade Bevier, FCSI, CCS, LEED-AP BD+C, SCIPa, USGBC
Senior Member
Username: wbevier
Post Number: 66
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 28, 2020 - 05:20 pm: | |
I would like to see the Spec-Data resurrect and be available. It is so much more useful when adding to or including the products in an existing or new section. |
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza
Post Number: 669
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2020 - 04:45 pm: | |
It looks like SPEC-DATA trademark went from CSI to Architects First Source/CMD to Reed Elsevier (Reed Business Data) and from there to ISQFT - who then was eaten by ConstructConnect who then was swallowed by Deltek. ConstructConnect is marketing Product MasterSpec. I don't expect MANU-SPEC, SPEC-DATA'S 3-Part partner, to re-emerge. It had limited value to specifiers compared to Product MasterSpec.
Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA
SpecGuy Specifications Consultants
www.SpecGuy.com
phil@specguy.com |
BH (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 01:34 pm: | |
I'm I correct in assuming that organizational structure is not covered by the trademark?
Does CSI still own the copyright to the organizational structure (the PDF that Michael posted to Dropbox notes copyrights by CSI in '64, '65, '66, and '67)? Is there anything stopping manufacturers from simply following the organizational structure (assuming CSI allows it) and simply not calling it SPEC-DATA, and thereby avoid any trademark dispute?
I don't really care what they call it, I'm more interested in manufacturers following the organizational structure. |
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