Copyrighted images

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Author Message David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1948 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2022 - 12:09 pm:    OUr Chapter recently received a threatening letter from a law firm. They claimed that we used a copyrighted image on our website. They are collecting money on behalf of their client. They would not take us to court if wa paid them a relatively small amount. At first I thought this was an internet scam. After research I found this is a real law firm that is a copyright troll. They go around searching for copyrighted images on the internet. Then they send a letter and try to collect money. Has anyone dealt with this before? David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 720 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2022 - 12:32 pm:    Have not. But my initial reaction is that perhaps you might agree to pay the small fee once the firm has provided an affidavit indicating the name and contact information of their client that includes the statment that payment of the fee will permanently absolve the chapter from future claims for its use. I will bet you won't hear back from them. Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA SpecGuy Specifications Consultants www.SpecGuy.com phil@specguy.com Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2288 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2022 - 01:09 pm:    I haven't heard of this either, but I'd (1) contact CSI and ask that question and (2) see if you can contact a friendly lawyer for another opinion. I also might try contacting that client, either by yourselves, or through that friendly lawyer. It still might be a scam. CSI has lawyer members. I'd definitely start there and wouldn't pay out without additional information/investigation. John Bunzick Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1889 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2022 - 02:41 pm:    Yes, I have heard of this, although in your case it could be a scam. I am not an intellectual property attorney, but you should check on this further. If the image is registered with the US Copyright office, you are strictly liable for damages by definition, and it can be very expensive. If the image is not registered, you can still be liable for copyright infringement, but it is usually limited (I think) to the unjust gain you have made from unfair use. For your chapter, that could be zero as a not-for-profit. Also, depending on how you used it, you may have a limited right to use the image under the fair use doctrine. I would think that the threatening firm has to tell you which image is in violation. Otherwise, you cannot correct the violation. You may be able to simply remove the image and be done with it. However, and this is IMPORTANT, one should not use images without an effort to find and pay the artist for the rights to do so. Artists need to make a living, too, and stealing images for use by others is a big problem on the web. I can't imagine a specifier using an architect's creative output this way, so why a photo or drawing? Even if produced internally, I think that if you use a photo by one of your members; you should credit their work. There are literally many thousands of free-use images available online, and probably more that can be used for a small fee. Please don't steal the work of creators. hollyrob19 (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2022 - 01:14 pm:    SCIP Members enjoy the following benefits: Lawyer On Call: Members are entitled to two free calls to LegaLine, the AIA Trust Legal Information Service. To access the LegaLine, call (800) 688-9780 and identify yourself as a SCIP member. https://www.scip.com/profile/benefits/ David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1949 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 12:39 pm:    According to the letter from the attorney other CSI Chapters used the copyrighted image on their websites, namely: Sacramento Great Lakes Region San Francisco Indianapolis Minneapolis St. Paul I have asked our the Puget Sound Chapter member that does our website to get a hold of these changpers. Mayber together we can form a strategy. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 876 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 12:46 pm:    I took a quick look at a few of those sites, and they seem to be using CSI national's website template and server. This is probably not a local chapter issue, but more of a sole source or original source issue from CSI national. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1950 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 12:59 pm:    BTW, the offending image is just a simple road sign with the word "EDUCATION" and an arrow. I have not posted it here for fear of inadvertantly getting 4Spec and Colin Gilboy involved in the lawsuit. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 106 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 01:18 pm:    I'd just remove the image and forget about it. Don't feed the trolls. Steven Bruneel, Retired Architect Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 708 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 02:28 pm:    If you need cover art, turn it into a little competition limited to your members. The winner gets their vacation picture memorialized on your publication. For years the AIA had an annual competition where members submitted photos to go into their desk calendar. John Bunzick Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1890 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 03:22 pm:    David. I looked at your website but couldn't find the image. I did, however, find an image online similar to the one you describe - a diamond shaped yellow sign with "education" and an upward pointing arrow. If that's the image, it is copyrighted by iStockPhoto, which is owned by Getty Images. They are one of the largest stock photo companies, so it's no wonder they would be aggressively protecting their property. A license to use that image would cost $33 according to their website. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1951 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 04:06 pm:    John, The image has been taken down from our website. The image can be found at picpedia.org, Highway signs. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 107 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2022 - 07:09 pm:    Umm, since the web site you mentioned very clearly states who the original copyright holder is and that the image is released under a Creative Commons License, there is no reason for you not to use it - just make sure it is properly attributed. If the letter you received is claiming that anyone other than Nick Youngson owns rights to the image, then you should forward the letter to Mr Youngson informing him that someone else is trying to claim credit, and money, for his image. If the attorneys who contacted you are representing Mr Youngson or Alpha Stock Images, then just double check that you have complied with the CC license. John Bunzick Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1891 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2022 - 04:35 pm:    Sounds more and more like a scam, no? David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1952 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2022 - 05:51 pm:    What is the SCIP attorney's contact information? Does CSI National have an attorney on retainer? Thanks, David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Loretta Sheridan Senior Member Username: leshrdn Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2021 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2022 - 08:40 am:    The CSI DCP classes are AWLAYS stressing that we NOT just grabbing an image of the internet and using it, and making sure you have the rights to use it. So CSI may not offer much support; probably more like, "We told you so." For awhile I had my own subscription to Adobe images. That was helpful-ish, though limited. Loretta Sheridan Senior Member Username: leshrdn Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2021 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2022 - 08:52 am:    Adobe Image subscription was an easy addition to Creative Cloud subscription. It doesn't get to be too expensive unless you are using /distributing a TON of image. Shutterstock isn't too bad in terms of pricing. But I found that their stock tends to be limited. It may have imported -- that was a while ago. Wikimedia Commons is FREE! And has a lot of stuff. It tends to be a little difficult to navigate (compared to Adobe and Shutterstock.) You do have to credit as indicated with each image. I always hated Getty. They charge more, and they seem to be greedy. Found this info on Wikipedia about Getty: "Claiming copyright over public domain content Getty Images has continued the practice that Corbis (whose license it acquired in 2016) has been criticized for of claiming copyright, watermarking and selling images that are in public domain, including images related to The Holocaust like the Warsaw Ghetto boy photo,[55][56] the Polish cavalry in Sochaczew photograph,[57] or images created by NASA.[58] Getty has also tried to collect fees from photographers for use of their own images that they had previously put in the public domain.[58]" "Public-domain photos from historical photographers such as Dorothea Lange and Walker Evans have long been available for unrestricted downloading from the United States Library of Congress. The exact same images are also available from Getty Images, subject to a licensing fee of up to $5,000 for a six-month term.[59] This demonstrates an example of copyfraud."