Too many words

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Author Message David G. Axt, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 2113 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2025 - 11:45 am:    Last week, I received an email from my architectural client, which was from their developer client. In essence, the developer said my specifications were too wordy. This reminds me of the scene in 'Amadeus' where Emperor Joseph II told Mozart that his musical piece had too many notes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_eqxh-Qok David G. Axt, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC David G. Axt, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 2114 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2025 - 11:54 am:    So this begs the question. Can architects or developers dictate specifiers' means and methods? If I cut back on some of my specification language, you know damn well a problem will arise where I wish I had that language back in the specifications. My father, who was in advertising, used to say that 50 percent of all advertising dollars are wasted......but, we don't know which 50 percent. David G. Axt, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Nathan Woods, RA, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 943 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2025 - 12:05 pm:    Well, you can see how verbosity can impact cost, right? If you plunk down an 1,800 page project manual for a pool deck resurfacing project, you are going to eliminate the smaller contractors right off the bat, and while you might reasonably get better results using top tier contractors, the cost may not be considered a good value compared to the work and the developers expectations. David G. Axt, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 2115 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2025 - 01:15 pm:    The project is a mixed-use multi-family. It takes up more than a city block. The ground floor is all retail of 5,643 square feet. There are seven stories of residential about the first floor with 184 units. There is a two-story below-grade parking garage for 91 cars. There are full amenities and a rooftop terrace. The project is LEED v4.1 silver. I am one of the 21 consultants on the project. I agree with Nathan that the complexity of the specifications should reflect the complexity of the project. David G. Axt, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 199.36.252.162 Posted on Monday, July 21, 2025 - 07:58 pm:    can you drop in a short example? Let the forum try and see if there are ways to streamline to make it less verbose. will be a fun challenge for this group. James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 391 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2025 - 09:23 am:    When I first started writing specifications my mentor told me the difference between a project manual for a $10 million project and that of a $100 million project was about 3/8th of an inch. In other words, 4-1/2 inches versus 4-7/8 inches thick. In 20+ years of doing this schtick I've found his assertion is about right. As already mentioned, I have a suspicion some contractors base their proposals in part on the thickness, or perhaps weight, of the project manual. :-) John Bunzick Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1945 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2025 - 04:01 pm:    Roughly 25 to 30 years ago, MasterSpec was a very wordy master. Arcom (at the time) realized this and worked to reduce the wordiness. I was on the MasterSpec Review Committee for a number of years, and also wrote about 30 sections for them as a consultant, and I can say that brevity was valued in revisions. It got better as a result. In writing project specs when I worked for architecture firms, I tried to balance the level of detail to both the project, and to the product. On the product (oops, I mean work results) end of things, where there was very little of something I didn't overdo it. Even submittals were cut back to the bare minimum. Also, I was much briefer on products and systems where there was never any issues in my 30 years in the industry - such as drywall. There's a lot of it, but it mostly goes okay. But, there's still a lot of words. Let's face it, architects and builders are visual and three-dimensional thinkers. Specifiers may be that, but they are also highly verbal and linear. The concern about wordiness probably has a lot to do with that. Steven Bruneel, Retired Architect Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 738 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2025 - 05:12 pm:    In my 25 years writing specs in house for a firm that concentrated on hospitals, MOB's and research facilities, I became used to the length of my specs being dependent on the design team, of which we would always have 4 or so, working on different projects. One team wanted their projects to be like Apple products, and there would be one exterior cladding and every finish very minimalistic. Another team created such complex designs, with many materials, I required them to create exterior finish spreadsheets to keep track. I am told that the DNA for wheat is vastly bigger than that for humans. If at times our specs are the DNA of a project, I learned that project size wouldn't predict spec size.