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Jim Wahlmeier PE
Intermediate Member
Username: jwahlmeier

Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 01:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Some UL systems include an option of having a sheet metal sleeve incorporated into the fire-stopping detail for penetrating concrete on metal decks. Often, there is a minimum sheet metal gage indicated, and a couple other general requirements, such as extension past opening. For this project the sheet metal sleeve will be cast-in-place to serve as the form for the concrete pour.

A question has come up regarding lapping the "sleeves" longitudal seam and spot welding in lieu of a continuously welded longitudal seam. It appears that the systems I've researched on the UL website are silent on fabrication/construction method of the GSM sleeves.

Question: Is the contruction method of a galvanized sheet metal sleeve significant to construction compliance with the UL Detail?
Nathan Woods, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: nwoods

Post Number: 40
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 01:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I haven't looked this up, but my guess would be yes. Have you looked at the SMACNA manual? I'm guessing that continuously soldered seams at formwork would be advantageous
Jim Wahlmeier PE
Advanced Member
Username: jwahlmeier

Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Additional Information: F & T Rating for this application is 2-hour.
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza

Post Number: 145
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 04:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I recommend contacting the representative of a firestopping manufacturer who lists an assembly similar to what you intend to use. Approvals are specific to each manufacturer's products, and they are expert in the details of the assemblies' requirements. Seems none are lurking here today.
Kerri McCurdy (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 09:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

It could, depending upon the system selected. If it is a sealant only solution, and the sleeve extends beyond the assembly, fire/smoke could pass through any openings between welds. If the sleeve is filled with mineral wool, then the risk is reduced.

If the sleeve is cast in place and does not extend beyond the assembly, then I don't see any issues, but they should verify with the firestop manufacturer.

Hilti has a great cast in device that is a sleeve with the firestop and smoke seal in one unit called the CP 680. You can find the UL systems to match the application on the website www.us.hilti.com
Patrick (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 09:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

The contractor must follow the system to a tee in order to maintain the integrity of the design as tested by UL. Sleeve manufacturing process (all I have seen / supplied are spot welded) plays little to no role.
Patrick Boone (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 08:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

The answer to your question in short is no the sleeve plays little to no role, PROVIDING the contractor follows the installation guidlines as specified in the UL System assembly.
As a firestop representative, I always recommend that any contractor responsible for firestopping penetrations be certified by the manufacturer, hire a pre-qualified specialty contractor, or at a minimun train the person who is doing the work prior to installation. These guys will give this work to the newest person on site many times w/o knowledge or training on UL system breakdowns.
Bill McHugh (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Sorry to check into this discussion late, but...here's a few rules for firestopping SYSTEMS.

- SYSTEMS are condition specific...
- SYSTEMS must be installed as shown in the SYSTEM DETAIL from UL, OPL, ITS, FM Directories. There are over 7000 systems available, with several iterations within each system.
- Contractors select SYSTEMS to match field conditions.
- Firestopping is an exact science, without 'construction tolerance' allowances for error. If it's outside the system, it's not been tested and may not perform.
- Each component of the system, (sleeves, pipes, cables, annular space size, insulation, etc.) is specified within the tested and listed system design parameters. Presence of sleeves, plastic, sheet metal, cast in place, can change the performance dynamics of the system.
- It takes more than a quick, 1 hour presentation for contractors personnel to become versed in this specialized trade.
- For information about Firestopping, Specialty Firestop Contractors and compartmentation, visit http://www.fcia.org.

Thanks 4specs for providing this venue for our industry to go for information...

[Note - Bill is Executive Director of the Firestop Contractors Assoc. Colin]

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