Termites

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Author Message Julie Root Senior Member Username: julie_root Post Number: 11 Registered: 02-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:30 pm:    I am working on a public school where it has been determined that wood framing will be less expensive than steel framing. The question has come up 'What about termites?'. The construction is slab on grade and the project will sit on a newly graded recompacted site. Given the slab on grade I would not think there is much of an issue. There is limited landscape areas. Any advice or examples of project issues would be appreciated. Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, MAI Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 194 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:47 pm:    I'm not sure where the project is located, but if there's a history of termite activity in the local area, it's not a matter of IF the project will have termites, but more like WHEN. Make sure you comply with Section 2304.11 of the 2003 IBC (Assuming this is the adopted building code for the project's locale). Pretreatment and follow-on treatments will be necessary. Go to Texas A&M Agriculture Extension Service (http://dallas.tamu.edu/pdf/entd4012.pdf) for a comparison of termiticide performance. The information is somewhat dated (1995), so many of the commercial products may no longer be on the market and new ones may have been introduced. In either case, you can see the performance based on the active chemical and check that against the ingredients of available products. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 148 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:48 pm:    Julie, what part of the country is the building in - the building code typically has clear direction on the treatment of the soils and protection of the construction from infestation of termites. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 149 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:52 pm:    Termite Products approved for Florida: http://www.flaes.org/pdf/TermiticidesRegisteredInFlorida.pdf This is a excellent refernce for those who write specs in Florida. Julie Root Senior Member Username: julie_root Post Number: 12 Registered: 02-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:55 pm:    The project is in Los Angeles. Yes, there is a history of termite activity. We are under the California UBC 2001. Thanks - I will give the code and the Texas A&M a look. Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, MAI Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 195 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 02:02 pm:    In that case, refer to Section 2306 of the 2001 CBC. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 150 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 02:02 pm:    Excellent Article on Termites (not too gross) in the Coastal Contractor a sister publication of the Jounal of Light Construction - worth subscribing to if anyone works on coastal projects - excellent articles: http://www.coastalcontractor.net/pdf/2005/0507/0507term.pdf This may require a subscription to access it, we will see, this is from the Summer 2005 issue. Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: rjray Post Number: 41 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 03:54 pm:    Julie, I’m not familiar with UBC 2001. I thought 1997 was the last year ICBO published the Uniform Building Code. It must be a pretty small school to be Use Group E and Type V construction. Regardless, UBC 1997, Section 2303 includes the requirements for decay and termite protection. Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, MAI Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 196 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 05:35 pm:    Ron R: You're correct that the 1997 Uniform Building Code was the last published code by ICBO. However, the 2001 California Building Code (CBC) is based on the 1997 UBC, which is where the mix-up is. In either case, Section 2306 is titled "Decay and Termite Protection." As for size, a Group E-1, Type V-N (UBC) building could have up to 54,600 SF (one story only) provided it has a minimum of 40-foot yards on all sides and is sprinklered throughout. Additionally, a Group E-1, Type V-1hr building could have 94,200 SF (one story) or 125,600 SF (two story) with the same provisions as above. Julie Root Senior Member Username: julie_root Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 05:55 pm:    I did find the section. Thanks. The project is a K-3 (40 classrooms) that is just under the E-1 Type V-1HR SF. Many moons ago the project was to be metal stud, but the District determined through cost estimating that it was a 500K savings given steel prices. Now their maintenance division is saying 'wait a minute'. Yet they are building several schools in wood and probably have 100s more of existing wood buildings. This is only the second largest school district in the country. One would think they can manage termites. The truth is as Ron noted it is not a matter of IF rather than WHEN and we can do good practice, but if you have maintenance personel not being watchful over time the building will be infested. Homes here have to be treated in some form every 3-5 years. Why would a school be different if it is constructed of wood? Granted with a properly done slab one can deter the subterranean species, but there are two others; one that flies (drywood) and another that loves dampwood. Thanks again for helping me position the facts. Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: rjray Post Number: 42 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:22 pm:    Julie, Your school’s district client’s logic is interesting. The largest school district (4 high schools) in my metro area decided in 2001 that concrete frame construction with either steel studs or masonry back-up for the exterior skin has the lowest life cycle cost. Even with the recent cost of steel increases, which are now stabilized, we have found in our area that the labor savings associated with steel stud back up systems still has an economically sound life cycle cost. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wyancey Post Number: 47 Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:21 pm:    Julie, My experience was with the Formosan (sp?) subterranean termites in Hawaii. There we used D Fir framing lumber, pressure preservative treated. Very expensive lumber. HI also had a purpose made grade of basalt granular fill for under slabs on grade (developed by a professor at UofH) that prevented the tunneling by the termites. Lessons Learned: Termites attacks appeared in some unusal locations, such turning urethane sealant into Swiss cheese; in wood furniture on the 9th floor of an all concrete structured building; in wood blocking under parapet copings of same building. Julie, your client is being penny wise and pound foolish. They are creating a market niche for rehabs and reconstruction designers and contractors. I am involved in rehabs daily, and it is common for the rehab costs for a strip and reclad project to exceed the original contruction budget for everything. This is risk management exercise. Your public agency client is treading on thin ice with the tax payers money. Termites are like water intrusion damage (rot and mold). They and the damage they cause cannot always be seen from the outside. Out of site, out of mind. Wayne J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 111 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:57 pm:    One of the problems that Wayne neglects to mention is that the effectiveness of preservative pressure treatment varies with the density of wood. PPT Douglas Fir usually had some untreated wood at the core of a 2x4; am not sure about current treatment. Wood species with less density could warp and twist unacceptably (not to mention the inherent structural capacity). In Hawaii, I also saw or heard of termites going through redwood, cedar, CMU or even concrete to get at a good food source. They are more agressive in that climate (year-round temperate climate and a reasonable level of humidity), but even here in the Houston area, we do see some of this. The basaltic termite barrier mentioned by Wayne is a very good idea; size of granules is critical (too big for termites to move, but small enough to prohibit termites going around). I did hear from several people that getting it placed correctly was not cheap and a real pain in the okole. I am just a little surprised that the building code would permit construction of a educational occupancy of any real size using combustible materials; however, it does seem like you have run that trap. Doug Brinley AIA CSI CDT CCS Senior Member Username: dbrinley Post Number: 69 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 03:20 pm:    I used to design schools in the NW; we had to work with a situation where regional timber sales contributed to school funding; therefore the districts preferred to increase the consumption of wood products in construction(often against our advice). So we designed enormous high schools, etc. of stick framing, using millions of board feet. Some of this was justified by saying it made for increased competition; (ie: anyone could pick up a hammer, but few could cut steel studs)(?) Many of us design emigres from largely treeless environments were sad about that. And it happened in our generation. I'm not a tree-hugger; but that was wasteful and unnecessary. Fortunately not much termite action in our immediate area. Wayne might disagree; I haven't seen evidence of the little buggers. School designers - is public lands logging still a revenue generator for schools in Washington? Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wyancey Post Number: 48 Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 08:00 pm:    Doug, I have not seen termites either in western WA, but I have seen carpenter ants, but that is for another thread. When I worked in southern Alberta, the Alberta Building Code permitted single story large footprint schools (Jenny Emery Elementary School in Coaldale AB) to be contructed of wood frame (non-fire retardant treated) with CMU firewalls with 3 foot parapets to subdivide the floor area into smaller areas. Wayne