AWI QCP

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Author Message Steven T. Lawrey, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI Senior Member Username: lawrey Post Number: 22 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 01:52 pm:    When specifying architectural woodwork, does anyone have experience requiring an Architectural Woodwork Institute Quality Certification Program woodworker, and registration of the project, either by the Architect or woodworker? Is this more suited to certain geographic areas or project types? Here in Philly we have some very good woodwork houses and a few bad ones. Most of the local CMs know the quality level we typically seek, however I think it could preclude us from getting stuck with one of the "bad eggs". I'm beginning to specify a high profile tenant fitout and am interested in learning of Architect's and specifier's experiences, both good and bad, with QCP. Doug Brinley AIA CSI CDT CCS Senior Member Username: dbrinley Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 02:20 pm:    Please indicate whether you are working on a public sector project or for a private entity. For public sector work we have trouble and are vulnerable, and usually don't get the workmanship we'd like regardless of who does the work. For private sector work insisting on and getting an AWI shop has not been a problem so long as the client is willing to pay the 30 to 100% additional cost to get that high quality work. Most major cities have at least two AWI shops in my limited experience. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 93 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 02:22 pm:    I believe you can get a list of firms that participate in AWI's QCP from AWI's website. This would allow you to see how much you are limiting competition by requiring participation in this program. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 116 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 02:32 pm:    In NC we have an abundance of AWI member firms, many of whom work under the QCP. We frequently require work to be certified and don't have trouble getting it. The cost of the installations is driven more by the quality level required by the design than by the QCP requirement. We don't use less than AWI Custom in our work; corporate work and selected public project items such as courtrooms will be AWI Premium. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 117 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 02:38 pm:    In NC we have an abundance of AWI member firms, many of whom work under the QCP. We frequently require work to be certified and don't have trouble getting it. The cost of the installations is driven more by the quality level required by the design than by the QCP requirement. We don't use less than AWI Custom in our work; corporate work and selected public project items such as courtrooms will be AWI Premium. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 409 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 02:41 pm:    Steve, I was on the board of directors of AWI at the time they first went out with their QCP program and I had some feedback to them early in the program. And over the years, I have had many projects where I have specified the QCP program - and others where it was not that important. Here in the DC area, we have some really great woodworking houses, and some that I would shoot on sight. Any time I have a project where there is woodwork in a lobby of my office buildings, or anywhere else in the building, I specify the QCP program. But, there are a number of things that a contractor or woodworker can do to avoid it, or state that the issue was confusing and they did not know what was intended, and now it is too late to bring it online. There are 2 points specifically ask for in submittals. First, the woodworker must be certified as a company that it is capable of producing the fabrication AND finishing quality levels you specify. This has nothing to do with your project, AWI inspects their company and their fabrication and finishing quality (samples that they have to make) and issues them a certfication that they are capable of complying. Second, after becoming certified (good only for 1 y ear I believe) they must then submit to AWI your project, and AWI will then issue them a notification that the project has been licensed under the QCP program. We see the woodworker doing the first, then 'forgetting' to do the later when they are trying to get around it. And, once you have passed a certain point and discover this, it is also too late to bring QCP on board. Past a certain point, AWI won't accept the project for QCP, So what we do here now it not only specifically define these 2 submittal items, but also state that we will not review shop drawings or samples until we have the 2 in hand. And I make sure to keep our CA group and our project architects informed. Also, what you must do, before the specification is published, is call AWI and give them your firm name and the project name and location. They give you a number 'pre-registering' the project for the program. After that, when they get to the date that you have also told them to expect it to be on the street, they mail out notifications of the status. You get a form with your project name on it and the pre-registered number, and fill in the blansk for contractor, woodworker, etc. When you know the contractor you can tell them that, then they contact them and do the same with them. But, still they send these out to you as a flag. Thus you may start having submittals arriving, and yet you get a form where it seems AWI has no knowledge of the woodworker - you know there is trouble. If it is a good woodworker, they do not feel confined or offended by the requirements, it will all go very smoothly. They only time you have any resistance to not reviewing submittals or samples, or requiring to see the certificates is when the woodworker is really not qualified or intends not to comply. As to the other note about limiting the competition - that's not a problem. The woodworker does not need to be a member of AWI, and they do not need to be already certified. They can get their company certified for quality on a one time basis, and the project compliance is project by project each turned in separately by the woodworker anyway. We had a good woodworker who was fairly new and had not been working on projects like this, and it was originally brought up that they did not want to pay the costs to be a member of AWI. They got their certification as a one time thing, no problem. I will paste in here the language that I include in my architectural woodwork section. Not included are that I also have paragraphs in the elevator finishes section and in the division 9 transparent finishes section and in Wood doors that send them back here to comply with this requirement where those particular items are part of the overall requirements. Wood doors I include sometimes for the full project. Sometimes its just those doors specifically related to the wood paneling areas. It all depends on the scope of the project and the quality level required. *** 06400, under submittals, I have the following, the **nts lines are 'notes to the specifier' from my master. Please excuse the loss of formatting for indents to paragraphs which I can't control here. **NTS: DELETE BELOW IF NO CERTIFICATION IS REQUIRED. EDIT FOR THE HIGHEST GRADE REQUIRED ON THE PROJECT.** C. Woodworker's and Project Certifications: Prior to the submission of samples and shop drawings, submit the following: 1. Woodworker's Certification: Submit a copy of the AWI certification for the woodworker that they are certified to label as PREMIUM GRADE for compliance with the following Sections of the Quality Standards: a. All sections of AWI Quality Standard including finishing. 2. Project Certification: Submit a copy of the letter of acceptance from AWI to the woodworker for the project listing the project as eligible for inspection and labeling under the AWI Quality Certification Program. *** Under samples and shop drawings both, I have the following subparagraph... 5. Samples will not be reviewed until Certifications specified above have been submitted. *** The following is under my quality assurance area, and the phone number is one you can call at AWI to get the preregistration number. A. Qualifications: **NTS: EDIT THE FOLLOWING FOR ITEMS, AND DELETE IF SINGLE RESPONSIBILITY IS NOT REQUIRED. EDIT SPECIFIC ITEMS IN THE SCOPE OF ANY CERTIFIED PROJECT.** 1. Single Responsibility: Assign undivided responsibility of the architectural woodwork to a single firm specializing in this type of work. The firm and their personnel engaged in the work shall be able to demonstrate successful experience with work of comparable extent, complexity and quality to that shown and specified, including quality control and testing procedures. Do not engage a firm unacceptable to the manufacturers of the primary materials to be used. The firm shall engage other specialty firms to perform any part of the work which he is not equipped or qualified to perform with his own personnel. Include the following major items in the scope of work for undivided responsibility: a. All items of architectural woodwork specified herein. b. Wood doors. c. Elevator cab woodwork items including wood and plastic laminate finished items. d. Veneers, and including all veneers for each cut of each specie shall be from the same veneer source. e. Plastic laminate, and including all plastic laminte materials for each pattern and color shall be from the same source. f. Finishing of all items, and including all finish materials for each finish shall be from the same source. **NTS: IF THIS PROJECT IS NOT BEING CERTIFIED, DELETE BELOW.** 2. In addition, fabricators and installers of all architectural woodwork associated with the project shall be certified by the AWI Quality Certification Program as competent to perform the work specified. **NTS: IF THIS PROJECT IS NOT BEING CERTIFIED, DELETE BELOW.** B. Certification: Provide evidence of certification through the application of AWI Quality Certification Labels or the issuance of an AWI Quality Certification labels or the issuance of an AWI letter of licensing for the project. **NTS: CALL AWI AT 1-800-449-8811 FOR REGISTRATION NUMBER.** 1. Project AWI Registration Number: XXX. *** Hope this helps you out, feel free to use or modify the language as you desire...or anyone else that wants to model off of this. It has been very successful for us. I think that Philadelphiia is more like DC in the kinds of firms. You have some excellent woodworkers there, or that do work there. And then there are some others. Some areas, like Phil mentions, are blessed with those that are more aware William Doug Brinley AIA CSI CDT CCS Senior Member Username: dbrinley Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 02:53 pm:    William - wow, that's great information. Another good thing about 4specs - people who know what they are talking about. Steven T. Lawrey, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI Senior Member Username: lawrey Post Number: 23 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 04:58 pm:    Thanks to all who have posted thus far: Doug: Work is private sector; image, rather than cost is prime concern. Phil: Good thought; I'll check the AWI website. William: Great advice, as usual, especially how they may weasel out. Your point about registering the project in advance is well taken and will help to ensure a good woodworker. All things considered we have good woodwork houses here; I just want to be sure this owner is happy "at the end of the day". Jo Drummond, FCSI Senior Member Username: jo_drummond Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 08:23 pm:    CSI has a protocol for the order in which initials like CSI, CDT, CCS are to be displayed. You can consult their Administrative References. Tracy Van Niel Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 121 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 09:34 am:    I agree with William. Although, it seems like we are fortunate in the Central Ohio area to have several good woodworking companies located in our area and, most of the time, feel that we get a decent project by including the references to the AWI Quality Standards. There have been some exceptions to that so we specify a QCP project when we feel a higher level of woodworking skill and the type of woodwork requires it. We have specified QCP for at least one public project that I can think of off hand and had no problem getting it on that project because we had at least 5 or 6 millwork companies listed as preapproved (and all were already QCP certified).