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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 112 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 10:52 am:    Independent SpecWriter: 4 hours or less sleep per night In-House SpecWriter: 8 hours or more sleep per night Independent SpecWriter: Vacations once every 3 years for no more than 8 days at a time. In-House SpecWriter: 2 weeks minimum per year each year Independent SpecWriter: "If I hear the checks in the mail" one more time, I will strangle that client!!! In-House SpecWriter - if "I don't get my 2 weeks pay check today, I'm walking". Oh the joys of being an independent SpecWriter - how's that commercial go - "priceless!!!!!!!!!" Although It would be nice to get more sleep and get paid on time - I would never go back to being just another architect. Lynn Javoroski Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 208 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:03 am:    "In-House SpecWriter: 8 hours or more sleep per night" - what fantasy world do you live in anyway? I've got early morning meetings and late evening meetings. I'm lucky to average 6 per night during the week. And since there are always chores to be done around the house, that extends into weekends, too. I got 8 hours sleep recently, and woke up disoriented and confused, running 2 hours late! That made for a fun day... "In-House SpecWriter: 2 weeks minimum per year each year" - perhaps, but try to find a time to take those weeks when nothing is due, especially if you want to take a whole week at one time! And to get them both together? HAH! I don't think in-house or in-dependent specifiers are all that different when it comes to doing the work that we do. And we share some of the madness with the others in the architectural/construction community (no project is ever really finished). Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 88 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:13 am:    I have to agree with Lynn. I'm an in-house spec writer. I'm usually up at 4:30 am, at work by 7:00 am (our office works a 4-1/2 day week, so we start @ 7:30 am)lately it has been 6:15 to 6:30 am and even if I do go home most nights by 8:00 pm, it's usually midnight by the time I get to sleep due to tossing and turning about deadlines & budgets! Also, the 4-1/2 day week....yeah right! You can generally find me in the office most Friday afternoons and even Saturdays & Sundays. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 114 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:18 am:    Well, I hear you guys, but the several in-house specWriters whom I talk to tell me differently - they don't want to venture into my world because they like getting 8 hours of sleep, they like that guarranteed check twice a month, and they love their perks and insurance benefits - let's see our receivables are running about 90 days lately - guess being a one man show has its disadvantages - but it also has its advantages - if I live long enough to enjoy them! William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 379 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:28 am:    Wow, you must have had a strange experience as an in-house specifier. I am an in-house specifier - I know many independeents local and nationally. And those you know in the profession that are internal, I can't respect their reasons either. Sleep: I find that I have no more nor less sleep than my counterparts have. However, I do recognize that they often get less sleep per night though on the whole that they come out ahead as they set their own work schedule and I don't. Our office has core hours - I can adjust my arrival and departure time, but I have to be in the office no later than 9:30 and leave no earlier than 4:30 and total an 8 hour day. And I don't get to sleep late or take a mid day nap if I was up all the previous night laboring over a project that needed special attention. But, that does not happen frequently because I manage my time pretty efficiently and I have the project managers and project architects trained. They understand well that if I say anything given me within the last 10 days of a project might not make it in, and the closer it gets the more likely it won't. Independents often don't have that luxury, though if you do the contract right you should. And schedule conflicts - that's their problem. They are all trained and understand the limitation I place on due dates in close proximity and know they will have to talk to other project managers if they have a conflict. They can't just dump it on me. Vacations: Pardon me? Pehaps far and few between for some, but I know some who had no problems going out of the country for a couple weeks every year, or taking a month to visit Australia. I am elligible for 5 weeks a year given my time in the company. However, I seldom get to take that, I can't take it all at once. When I do go, I am always taking my current projects that are expected to have issues with me to be able to answer via email any questions which I check once a day. Sometimes I miss a day. Payments: I don't recall that I have ever heard this expression about walking. But, companies do have a stronger obligation to pay their employees as opposed to their consultants. Just another Architect: Really? Any in-house specifier who is just another architect "just an't carryin' enough sand", to use an old-west saying. PMs and PAs and even principals may be just another architect. I know, they know, and I am treated openly and referenced to Owners and Contractors as much more than that. And god forgive the contractor or supplier that treats me as just another architect because I won't - and they will regret it. Independents have a good career and its a choice that you make for the style of practice and life choices you make. But how many of you get to see work intimately with the CA process (as part of your specifier duties, not as a CA consultant) of every one of your projects. How many of you get to benefit from, or have to defend your work issues that arise during the construction process on a day to day basis. All that time you spent researching a given coating, curtain wall system, roofing system, what do you feel when its lost due to lack of understanding for a simple explanation that the architect was unable to give and did not want to bother the specifier because its beyond your scope...or just because you weren't handy during a meeting. And for that, how many of you get to become involved directly with manufacturer's of new or innovative products that you or the architect want to use - after the project when they come back to you to work out issues of how to better educate contractors or owners that either don't understand or use incorrecct information to avoid the product. That's my day, guys, and I enjoy it very much. I wouldn't trade being an independent over being an internal specifier any day - I would never want to be 'just another consultant' even if a very special one. William Kristin C Kennedy RA CCS CSI Intermediate Member Username: kkennedy Post Number: 4 Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:30 am:    Am I reading this right? It seems like there's a pissing match (sorry if that language is offensive) about who has it tougher - the in-house specifier or the independent specifier. No wonder so many of us feel undervalued, when we can't even respect each other. I think we all work hard - even the architects who also write specs - and each position has its good points and bad. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 380 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:36 am:    Not at all Kristin - I thoght it was, who has it better, not tougher. Jerome started the thread for whatever reason. I think the issues of time, pay and vations are hollow and pointless issues where its a different work and life style that really averages out the same. There are definite differences though that he did not bring up related to what you actually get to do and how you get to do it. William Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 140 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 01:39 pm:    There are obviously benefits and drawbacks for each. It's whatever best suits the individual. I'm currently in transition from in-house to independent (right now I'm doing both at the same time; talk about lack of sleep!). I started down this road for two reasons: flexibility of the independent spec writer and a lack of what I thought was respect for my work in-house. I have just recently (as of yesterday) begun to question the latter. I'm being recalled to active duty for 7 months, and discussing the situation with my employer, she wanted to know how the firm is going to get by on its projects without a spec writer for that period. Her concern probably won't change my mind about going independent, but it points to the fact that spec writers, although under appreciated, are critical to the business of design. Hopefully, I'll get the firm's business when I go independent after I return (there is a drawback; they may like the interim independent I'm recommending better than me!) Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 115 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 01:49 pm:    William - you seem to lack a sense of humor? I was responding in my own sarcastic way to the gripes I'm hearing these days regarding specwriting - true I'm not happy about the long hours and longer than usual payments - but I have the credentials and abilities to play architect - instead I choose to play specwriter, as I find such a role much more rewarding - come on guys a little humor now and than is what keeps me from going mad - and for the most part my colleagues and clients feel the same, as is evidenced by the regular humor, some of which I must admit is pretty tasteless - that I receive by way of email on a regular basis. My post was to be humorous - others have already posted the serious differences between in-house and outhouse, oops I mean out of house specWriters. My apologies if you misunderstood - however having gone to bed at 6AM, waking at 9AM this morning, I am more cynical than usual - we in Florida are facing a Building Code change on July 1 and the panic has started - not because there are earth shattering chnages in the 'new code', but because of the uncertainty of the permitting process under the new code - currently in the big cities of Florida - you submit your plans and 4-6 months later you get a permit (if you are lucky) - my clients and their clients are fearful that the permitting process will get longer, at least initially under the new code - so panic has set in, jobs that were dead in the water have sprung to life and everyone seems to have the same goal in mind - submit brfore June 30th or else....my vacation starts July 1. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 116 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 01:52 pm:    Ron - good luck, stay safe, from what I've read of your past posts and your apparent knowledge, getting a specwriting position when you get back should not be a problem...if you are interested in Florida...we could certainly use some qualified specwriters like yourself, here! Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 195 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 02:07 pm:    I'm in-house but do work for four offices, and consider client maintenance exactly the same as when I was a self employed consultant. Sometimes I can get a managing partner to determine which of the conflicting deadlines I need to address first, but for the most part, I manage my work load, my "clients", the product reps and the production schedule in the same way I did when I was working at home. The frequent travel does make me feel like a consultant sometimes, and that is more fun than just being in the same desk every day. I do not get to take mid-afternoon bike rides anymore, and I miss getting $10,000 checks in the mail, even though I do like getting a regular paycheck. I worked a longer day when I was self employed, but it was a slower paced day -- I did errands mid-day when it was easier, and I exercised more regularly, and then worked later in the evening. The biggest difference now is that I am paid to do "non-productive" work -- teaching in the office, Masterspec committee and other community service tasks that my employer applauds. I also like having people around me during the day. I think that the attitude we bring to the job is the critical thing -- one can be entrepreneurial and still be employed by someone else. The architects I like to work with the best all ran their own offices at some time or another. I'm glad I was self employed for 10 years, and at this time, I'm equally glad that I'm not self employed now. Mitch Miller,AIA ,CSI,CCS Senior Member Username: m2architek Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2004 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 02:11 pm:    Bravo Anne, you have hit the nail on the head....it's all about our attitudes!! attitude determines action....outlook determines outcome! Lynn Javoroski Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 209 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 02:28 pm:    Ron - I echo Jerome's words: stay safe, good luck, come back to give us all the benefit of your words of wisdom! Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 89 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 02:34 pm:    I think that regardless if one is an "in-house" or independent spec writer - we all work just as hard and hopefully enjoy the benefits of our labor. There is definatly room for both of us in the world of spec writing. I have always been an "in-house" spec writer and enjoy having a greater involvement with the projects and the project team as part of the firm. I don't know if I could ever be an independent, but I have have the utmost respect for those who are. Some are my friends and fellow members of CSI. David J. Wyatt Senior Member Username: dave_wyatt_csi_cca_ccca Post Number: 11 Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 11:17 am:    As with Mr. Geren, I am an in-house specifier making the transition to independent with the consent of my employer. To prevent conflict of interest, I am doing independent consulting for product manufacturers who want to bring their product information to architects, as well as freelance writing for design and industry publications. My motivation for becoming independent is mainly to have some control over marketing my own services to clients I choose. The unintended but very positive result is that I now regard my employer as my most-favored client. They pay me more than my other clients and always on time. It is easy to take these things for granted when you have been employed for a long time. However, when you come to regard your employer as a client, as a business person you start to have more respect for the financial security they provide you and your family. Anne Whitacre's points are very astute. Having people to network with on a daily basis is good for keeping your communication skills sharp. Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 198 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 04:49 pm:    I think one of the hardest things about being self employed is that you have to work really hard to keep your information lines open -- both to the contractors and also to the design community. Its pretty easy to load up on work, stick around your computer, and continue doing what you were doing. A lot of my inquiry now into products comes from discussions of problems on our jobs under construction and I found that as a consultant, I didn't often get that information. You need to take a lot of people out to lunch and ask questions -- and that alone will make you a lot more valuable to your clients. Dennis Hall (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 09:27 pm:    We have the advantage or disadvantage of being both specification consultants (I perfer this term rather than "independent spec writer") and architects (providing specifications on our own design projects). Both are the same services, with the same unrealistic deadlines, and clients that don't understand what we really do (for the most part). But educating our clients, either in-house or out-of-house, is part of our services. I guess I really don't understnad what this big deal is about between the so-called independent spec writers and the so-called in-house specifiers. We all do the same job (hopefully), get paid for our work (even more hopefully), and deal with the same issues of standard of care of our services. I can certainly see the issues of a sole practictioner, either as an architect or specification consultant, sitting alone in their office for hours and hours, working on complex detailed projects and driving themselves insane. This is where SCIP, CSI, and web sites such a 4specs.com comes in. They provide feed back, professional compansionship, and delay to eventual visit to the sanatorium. This is all not as gloomy as it may sound. Some of my best friends are crazy. Or at least some of my most interesting friends. Anyway, it is 9:30 PM on a Sunday night and I have got to go back to work. Thanks for the derversion. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 382 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 10:40 pm:    Dennis has an entirely good point when he says "This is where SCIP, CSI, and web sites such a 4specs.com comes in. They provide feed back, professional compansionship, and delay to eventual visit to the sanatorium." I don't know about the evential visit to the sanatorium, but the rest is true enough. William (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 01:37 am:    What are the differences and how do we learn from them - well I tried to make this thread a bit more amusing, but it has seemed to turn serious - so how about some serious differences and some clarifications. First of all, most of the independent specification consultants I know are in Florida (my home base)are small firms, less than four and as small as one. We have genuine problems that are not faced by the larger independents - it is true comaradery is nil in my small office, I find I talk to my cat alot and curse at the computer more, but there are some real issues that I face everyday that I think my fellow specification consultants (thanks William, I like the sound of that) might be willing to share with me and I believe that my success and ability to maintain my sanity (though there are several Contractors that would disagree with the sane part) proves my ability to share my experiences as well. Enuf said, my goal here is to remain an independent - for me it is a personal and family choice that requires me to stay independent, continue to talk to my cat, and curse at my computer - maybe I'm a masochist, but I continue to stay small (in work force not work load) So I will be starting several new threads over the next few hours, days, and weeks to ask my fellow specification consultants to share what they have learned about managing time, dealing with difficult clients, avoiding insanity, getting paid, strategies to avoid blood pressure spikes due to computer meltdowns and software upgrades, insurance issues, contract language, etc...truly these are issues and problems that we all face whether independent or in-house. I for one have received more useful help on these issues from this forum than from any other source. So my fellow specification consultants expect to see more posts from me, not posting anon, although some of my posts may seem silly, odd, and I can't believe he don't know that - but I'm hear to learn and maybe save some time, avoid some aggravation, control my blood pressure and get to sleep tonight before the sun rises. PS - I know that there are other boards on this forum that discuss some of these issues, but during the day and night I just don't have time to look at them all - Spec Discussion and Product Discussion boards are it for me. Thanks for listening - back to work, another deadline and another client to beg for $$ tomorrow. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 118 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 09:23 am:    Ooops - I truly do hate computers - the previous post was mine! Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 137 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 02:27 pm:    Jerome, I'm sure that many of us have feline "assistants." I have more than one photo of a cat proofreading a project manual by walking on it or napping (& shedding) on top of blueprints. Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 199 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 02:34 pm:    I also had canine assistants. Taking the dog for a walk was a particularly good way to burn off steam from some silly client phone call. (and the dogs were very attentive when product reps came to my house -- another possible source of dog biscuits, I guess). Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 120 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 11:13 pm:    Helaine - well my cat (one of three in the family) does not proof read specs - rather she is astute at getting in my office late at night and rearranging my well organized piles of paper - at which time I curse, for various lengths of time, and promise to keep her away forever - but it is true in the wee hours of the morning, its nice to have her around...and she is amazingly resilient, she continues to come back, seems to be even friendly than before my outburst and yes she is probably responsible for reducing the blood pressure rise that she was instrumental in raising in the first place...am I babbling - could be this is going to be a long week of 18 hour days - too many deadlines. Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 138 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 12:35 pm:    When my dog and senior cat were still living, we had a system. I cover all flat surfaces with books, papers and magazines. The cats rearrange the books, papers and magazines and knock some onto the floor, whereupon the dog chews them up. Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 109 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 01:01 pm:    Boys Independent = Boxers In-house = Briefs Girls Independent = sensible comfortable cotton In-house = thongs ;) Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 204 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 01:47 pm:    okay Marc, that was a leap, even for you. any more explanation? Anonymous   Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 01:58 pm:    Re: Marc's explanation How does he know all that? Word of mouth? Third-party hearsay testimony? In-depth investigation? Something new in Sweets? Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 02:02 pm:    Sounds like someone has waaaaay too much time on their hands or has finally gone over the edge!! Lynn Javoroski Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 212 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 03:34 pm:    Or maybe over the "wedge" Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 110 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 06:49 pm:    OK you asked for it. I'm supposed to be working but... Boys: Boxers:As an independent you like to believe (even though it may not be true) that you are "free of constraints" your favorite song is "Don't fence me in" Briefs: As the man in the gray flannel suit you are under control and so are your shorts. Girls: Cotton: as an independent you don't have to dress up. heels and stockings stay in the closet/drawer and the important thing about life is comfort... therefore cotton. Thongs: Again the corporate animal is always under control AND moving up the corporate ladder requires no VPL! QED Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 149 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 10:00 am:    Uh, I have mostly been in-house yet have worn "sensible comfortable cotton" clothing and black leather tennis shoes nearly every day for 25+ years. Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 205 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 03:18 pm:    I think life is too short for white cotton underwear -- for either gender. this may be the only "design" decision I get to make all day... Doug Brinley AIA CSI CDT Senior Member Username: dbrinley Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 03:24 pm:    I was hoping someone would get around to underwear. Now I feel 'complete'.