| Author |
Message |
Jeff Williams
New member
Username: tango
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2022
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2022 - 01:59 pm: |    |
I have a building with Centria insulated metal panels that are over 25 years old. The Kynar paint is failing and peeling off the panels. I need to repaint the building and have been doing product research. Where I am currently at is Urethane or Kynar. Kynar is about $450 a gallon Urethane is around $70 a gallon. I have been told that Urethane can have a 10yr warranty and field applied Kynar is around 15 years. Some paint mfg. only has a 7-year warranty for urethane. I am not really sure what to do here. The prep to repaint is where most of the dollars lie here. Does anyone have any experience in this area? Thank you! |
Jeffrey Potter
Senior Member
Username: jpotter
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2017
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2022 - 04:12 pm: | |
Were you looking at Kynar Aquatec? Try also looking at a siloxane from PPG or Sherwin Williams. If you want longevity, try that, but you can't go wrong with a urethane. Any coating will require re-coating or stripping and repainting over time. They got 25 years off of PVDF is really great. Owner should realize they won't get that same length with a field applied product. |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1479
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2022 - 04:36 pm: | |
Carboline and Tnemec both have excellent recoating systems as well.
Check on number of coats needed and levels of surface prep required. If the high end product requires fewer coats you may save more in labor than you'll spend in $/gallon. Urethane with a clear coat may add longevity as well but at added cost.
As you already know, surface prep is going to determine success regardless of which coating you use.
does the owner plan on keeping the building? |
Jeff Williams RA
Junior Member
Username: tango
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2022
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2022 - 10:44 am: | |
Just a clarification, the Metal panels are the skin for the building walls. I think they are Centria Versawall. The panels are T&G metal panels that make up the insulation and air barrier for the building.
Yes the owner is planning on keeping the building for another 50 years.
I was wondering if the Urethanes really only last 7 years. Seems they last a lot longer than that on bridges.
I talked to both PPG and Sherwin Williams about the prep and have a pretty good handle on that. You have to scratch the existing panels with a 1-2 mill profile for mechanical adhesion. |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 946
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2022 - 12:10 pm: | |
Talk to Tnemec and Carboline |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 2285
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2022 - 12:13 pm: | |
What does Centria - or whoever they are now - have to say about it (if the panels are Centria)? |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 947
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2022 - 12:20 pm: | |
We have specified the systems below for repainting aluminum storefront and curtain wall.
2.1 MANUFACTURER
A. PPG High Performance Coatings, Pittsburgh, PA (800-441-9695).
2.2 [MATERIALS
A. Wash Primer: "Coraflon™ ADS Wash Primer"
1. Base Component: "ADS225"
2. Acid Component: "ADS226"
3. Thinner: "ADS703"
B. Prime/Intermediate Coat: "Coraflon™ ADS High Build Epoxy Primer/Intermediate"
1. White Component A: "ADS 538"
2. Curing Agent Component B: "ADS539"
C. Finish Coat: Coraflon™ ADS topcoat; two component, fluoropolymer finish. ]
2.3 [MATERIALS
A. Bonding Primer: "Coraflon™ ADS PVDF Bonding Primer"
1. White Component A: "ADS511"
2. Curing Agent Component B: "ADS512"
B. Finish Coat: Coraflon™ ADS topcoat; two component, fluoropolymer finish.] |
Jeff Williams RA
Member
Username: tango
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2022
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2022 - 11:06 am: | |
Lynn, Centria is recommending PPG which I have a lot of confidence in. Exactly what Wayne mentioned. That my base. That is $525 a gallon with at 15yr warranty. Sherwin Williams recommended a urethane because it has a 10 year warranty and is around $70 a gallon. Also they said the prep to repaint in the future is much less than a fluoropolymer -which is basically Teflon. That made me think....and research some. Also led me to 4 specs which I go to when I get stuck.
Wayne I called tnemec and Carboline. I spoke to Carboline and learned about the siloxane coatings. That was new to me.
Thank you for your comments. |
Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip
Post Number: 562
Registered: 02-2014
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2022 - 04:20 pm: | |
What kind of facility is the building? If appearance is not important or if you want an industrial look you could put zinc rich primer on it and not have to worry about color coatings peeling off but still the primer would eventually do so, and I agree that quality of prep work is the foremost factor in how long anything will last. I also think simpler is better. Too late in your case to do just an unfinished sheet metal like zinc that patinas to an attractive appearance long-term with no hassle, but the unfinished zinc-rich primer thought is based on that idea. Or maybe also clear-coat it for even appearance and easier cleaning.
Coatings in general, and especially fluoropolymers, tend to have a bad environmental track record. The fluoropolymer industry is cleaning up their act environmentally, but I'm not sure if it is across the board, and whether the new alternatives are much safer, so I still suggest other options to the architects that I work with. (Fluoropolymers are the best when it comes to color-matching, though.)
E.g. https://www.civilianexposure.org/sources-of-pfas-incinerated-at-cohoes-ny-revealed/, hit ctrl F and type in kynar. 43,952 pounds of materials containing PFAS were shipped to be burned at an incinerator in New York. Thankfully that incinerator was shut down in 2019. People are starting to figure out that these toxins don't just go away and cannot just be burned up. Since then, Arkema has developed a PFAS surfactant-free manufacturing process for Kynar 500 FSF and Kynar Aquatec.
I couldn't find similar info from PPG but am checking with a rep. It's been a few years since I last specified Coraflon. Plan to pay a hefty price per gallon. |
Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip
Post Number: 563
Registered: 02-2014
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2022 - 04:30 pm: | |
Just noticed this other thread talking about PFAS http://discus.4specs.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?4254/9723 |
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