Warranty for Tile/Stone Flooring

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Author Message Brian Payne Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 227 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Friday, February 12, 2021 - 12:08 pm:    I was asked by one of my product reps why we don't have a designated warranty (I'm assuming Installers warranty) for our tile/stone sections. Neither BSD or Masterspac has it in their template. Do you all include this? Thoughts? Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 388 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Friday, February 12, 2021 - 01:39 pm:    Brian, Yes, I have added a 25 year tile installation warranty to our office masters. No one has complained. During an early Living Building Challenge project, I discovered that we had three tile setting material manufacturers with LBC-compliant products, and they all make this warranty available. I thought the warranty would provide support for the sole source requirements, attract better quality subcontractors, and help prevent random substitutions. - Brian Payne Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 228 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Friday, February 12, 2021 - 02:25 pm:    Thanks for the response Lisa. Is this an installer's warranty? If so, what does it cover? Or...Is this a manufacturer's warranty on product defects only? Rosa Cheney Senior Member Username: rdcaia Post Number: 18 Registered: 07-2018 Posted on Friday, February 12, 2021 - 03:21 pm:    Yes, I usually specify a manufacturer's system warranty. In my research of the manufacturers I specify (Custom, Mapei, Laticrete), the systems warranty includes materials and labor (and flooring material cost too, although I haven't recently checked this language is still there in all the warranties). The warranty covers material defects, but also covers failure of the floor/system under normal operating conditions. It excludes substrate/subfloor movement, etc, so it only is going to cover the tile popping off or cracks if it was a failure of the setting material and not some other failure cause. I don't necessarily consider this a 'workmanship' warranty - if the tiler installs a low-spot in the shower that gathers water, that area likely will not be covered by the warranty since it was not per TCNA/manufacturer installation instructions. If the tiler does not properly install the grout and it pops, this warranty does not cover that. The warranty typically requires you to use all their products, which I prefer anyway. As with many warranties, you have to be sure the Installer is obtaining and then handing over the warranty to the Owner for the project. I believe there is some legwork on the part of the Installer to ensure that they have earned the system warranty, which in some cases includes having the manufacturer review/approve the products being used to be sure they are the right one for the application. What I also like about the systems warranty is that it helps you to understand the relative quality of the various products...i.e. which products are 'builder's grade' versus 'premium grade'. The only time I have had an Architect/Owner request or require the warranty was for a big high-end shopping mall. But in no case, have I ever seen anyone make a claim on one of these warranties. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1339 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Friday, February 12, 2021 - 03:33 pm:    Curious if you add specific requirements for water testing a percentage of your under-tile waterproofing installations and drainage function. Custom used to have some sample language or suggestions to use as a starting point. I don't know if testing is a requirement to get their warranty. Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 389 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Friday, February 12, 2021 - 03:36 pm:    Yes, I agree with Rosa. We also include a 2 year installer warranty to run concurrently. No, I have not required field testing waterproofing. - Brian Payne Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 229 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Friday, February 12, 2021 - 04:26 pm:    I'm currently working with Terry Ohare with Custom, so it will be interesting to see what they suggest. Great Rep btw. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1340 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Friday, February 12, 2021 - 04:32 pm:    Yep. Terry is my go-to tile setting rep. Knows his stuff. He's the one who gave me the under-tile waterproofing testing info. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1144 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Friday, February 12, 2021 - 05:39 pm:    Several years ago, my local Daltile rep (since retired) said that Daltile would do the warranty (materials and labor) if you bought everything from their store. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP Edward J Dueppen, RA, CSI, CCS, LEED AP Senior Member Username: edueppen Post Number: 71 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Monday, February 15, 2021 - 03:22 pm:    I include a 10-year manufacturer's warranty for setting and grouting materials. What I have found to be more useful than a warranty in tiling projects is Demonstration and Training. Require tile and setting material mfr reps to meet with the Owner's staff to review cleaning materials and procedures. The incorrect cleaning will lead to more trouble than workmanship issues that I have seen on my projects. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 680 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Monday, February 15, 2021 - 03:48 pm:    Can I get AIA/CES credit for reading this? Thanks folks! Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA SpecGuy Specifications Consultants www.SpecGuy.com phil@specguy.com Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 581 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, February 15, 2021 - 04:08 pm:    Edward - I am not familiar with maintenance issues related to ceramic tile flooring. Can you share examples? Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru Brian E. Trimble, CDT Senior Member Username: brian_e_trimble_cdt Post Number: 125 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, February 15, 2021 - 05:31 pm:    Would a requirement like Advanced Certifications for Tile Installers (ACT) https://www.tilecertifications.com/ be appropriate here in addition to a warranty? This program tests tile installers in 7 different areas and would assure the specifier that the installer knows the correct installation methods. Edward J Dueppen, RA, CSI, CCS, LEED AP Senior Member Username: edueppen Post Number: 72 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Monday, February 15, 2021 - 05:34 pm:    Michael, Issues range from the Owner's staff not knowing that certain grouts and tiles need periodic sealing, to the improper use of cleaning agents. Many years ago I had a project where the university kitchen cleaning crew nearly completely dissolved and removed the grout a few months after occupancy because they didn't follow the O&M cleaning instructions the contractor provided. Most of this sort of problem is related to enzymatic cleaners, which can even dissolve some types of epoxy grout. See the following for further reading: https://bit.ly/3doOqM2 https://bit.ly/2Ow6mdl