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Loretta Sheridan
Senior Member
Username: leshrdn

Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2021
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2023 - 01:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I am getting pushback from the sales rep who is taking a look at our Curtainwall and Storefront specs about including flashing in the spec.

It's in the out-of-the-box MasterSpec and SpecLink text, specifically sill flashing and concealed flashing.

I also looked at manufacturers' specs. One manufacturer includes flashing; another does not include it for curtainwall, but does for storefront.

I even scoured the interned for project manuals from firms I trust to see what I could fin. Flashing was in those specs.

I have never head pushback before, and I have had people review storefront and curtainwall in the past.

What is your opinion? Thanks!
Nathan Woods, RA, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods

Post Number: 908
Registered: 08-2005

Posted on Monday, January 23, 2023 - 01:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

At best, I think Flashing should be referenced in your Division 8 specs, and then be in its own section under Division 7. Different trades provide these different materials, so separating them makes sense to me. I realize that may be a heretical statement under the concept of "work results", but I am a full time Construction Administrator, and this is how the real world works out in the field.
Brian Payne
Senior Member
Username: brian_payne

Post Number: 290
Registered: 01-2014
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2023 - 02:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Depends what Flashing we are talking about. If it's transition flashing as part of the air barrier, then I would put it in 07 with the air barrier as an accessory. If it is misc. brake metal flashing that is intended to complete the CW/SF system, then I'd keep it with the SF/CW.

If it's metal sill flashing i'd keep it in CW/SF. Stainless steel concealed flashing could go either way.
Loretta Sheridan
Senior Member
Username: leshrdn

Post Number: 74
Registered: 11-2021
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2023 - 03:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I do have sheet metal flashing and trim section in Division 07 for general flashing used elsewhere.

The flashing in SF/CW sections is SPECIFICALLY sill flashing and concealed flashing as part of the SF/CW. And it is labeled as such.
Brian Payne
Senior Member
Username: brian_payne

Post Number: 291
Registered: 01-2014
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2023 - 03:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I'd get a new sales rep! :-)

Randall Stevens at WCJ Sales is a great resource and covers your state.
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg

Post Number: 1549
Registered: 12-2006

Posted on Monday, January 23, 2023 - 03:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Did they give you specific reasons to exclude it?

I've seen details where the stainless steel brake metal flashing in the Division 08 fenestration specs interfere with the aluminum sill flashing but that is a detailing issue, not a spec issue.

Some firms opt to use stainless steel flashing to close off the back and top (cap) of mullions. I prefer to use extruded aluminum for those conditions. As long as you close them off, I guess the choice is yours. Some manufacturers show jamb mullions as being open backed; I don't know why. Very often doors, frames, and mullions do not get capped properly and permit free-flow of water. Apparently if you don't require it in your spec, you will not to get it. Again, this should be clearly shown in your details as well. How they presume to meet performance requirements as part of their delegated design without it is beyond me but we have seen projects when doing forensics on other firms' projects where it wasn't shown specified, or provided.
Steven Bruneel, Retired Architect
Senior Member
Username: redseca2

Post Number: 713
Registered: 12-2006

Posted on Monday, January 23, 2023 - 04:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

If the flashing piece is exposed to view and the design intent is that it have the same finish as the SF/CW I push hard for it to be provided by the SF?CW provider.
Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP
Senior Member
Username: wilsonconsulting

Post Number: 349
Registered: 03-2006

Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2023 - 04:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

The specifier decides the appropriate location to specify things, so you have the final word. I would take the rep's suggestion under advisement and do what you think is right.

The contractor has ultimate responsibility to provide everything shown or spec'd, and they also have the ability to assign it to the sub they choose.

I use the same approach to flashing you describe, and am not aware of any feedback.
Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP
Wilson Consulting Inc
Narberth PA
T.J. Simons, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: tsimons

Post Number: 43
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2023 - 06:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

My rule of thumb for this situation has always been that exposed flashings and trim in direct contact with curtain wall and storefront are fabricated from prefinished metal (typically aluminum) matching the curtain wall and storefront system. So I will typically include flashings and trim in those Sections. I've never had a curtain wall or storefront manufacturer object to this.
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza

Post Number: 746
Registered: 12-2002

Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2023 - 09:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Require an array of fingers in Sample submittals, so that they can be pointed when the opening fails a field test for water.
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