PDF's and Blank Pages

Log Out | Topics | Search Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Author Message Brian Payne Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 279 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2022 - 03:49 pm:    Good question came up this week from one of the Project Managers at work. "If nobody is printing physical spec manuals, then why insert blank pages to odd numbered sections?" In a world of PDFs, does it matter anymore? What do you all do? Gail Ann J. Goldstead, AIA, CSI, CCS, CDT, LEED AP, BD+C Senior Member Username: ggoldstead Post Number: 37 Registered: 03-2015 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2022 - 03:58 pm:    We still include the blank page with the text: THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK. There are many instances where we as well as contractors distribute single sections to team members, consultants or building trades for various reasons. It works much better to keep each spec section as a stand-alone piece. Gail Goldstead Brian Payne Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 280 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2022 - 04:15 pm:    Gail, thanks for the reply. Workflow question? Are you providing the contractor individual pdfs or a single pdf? If a single pdf is provided, I'm assuming the contractor just extracts the standalone pages desired and creates a new pdf. How does having/not having blank pages effect the process? Gail Ann J. Goldstead, AIA, CSI, CCS, CDT, LEED AP, BD+C Senior Member Username: ggoldstead Post Number: 38 Registered: 03-2015 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2022 - 04:41 pm:    We provide the Contractor a single Book-marked PDF. They usually use Procore and can readily separate into individual spec sections. The Procore Program does this automatically. By using blank pages for uneven spec sections, you can readily see you have the specific spec section without any other additional non-related info. I see how you can avoid having to do this, but you never know when people still may choose to print out any given section. I'm just saying this is an area that we still follow traditional protocol. Gail Goldstead Greta Eckhardt (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2022 - 04:47 pm:    The simplest way to indicate that an electronic or paper copy of a section is complete without extraneous material is to type END OF SECTION XXXXXX at the end of the last piece of text. The page number on that page shows the total number of pages for the section, and one can check that all the page numbers between that and page one are present. Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 111 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2022 - 06:32 pm:    People still print a lot of hard copies. Some AHJs still require documents to be "wet" signed, which requires a hard copy, and even if no hard copy is required, many people on both the A/E side (like me) and the Contractor side will still print hard copies. Not having the first page of the next section print on the back of the last page of the section I'm printing isn't a huge thing, but it is nice. George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 936 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2022 - 09:05 pm:    If a page says: "THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK" then you are intentionally not leaving it blank. Shouldn't you really say: "This page intentionally NOT left blank"? Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2290 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2022 - 09:50 pm:    George, you've expressed how I've felt for years about that comment. How about "This page intentionally has these words so nothing else can be here" George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 937 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2022 - 11:16 pm:    The tyranny of self-referential statements and recursive loops. The following statement is true. The previous statement is false. cf. Kurt Gödel, Raymond Smullyan, Douglas Hofstadter. Ron Beard Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 485 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Friday, September 09, 2022 - 10:24 pm:    If the Section text is terminated via "END OF SECTION" terminology or by " **** " designation, why not just issue a blank page? Obviously, this applies only where odd-even page numbering is applicable. If seems to make all of the above discussion a mute issue. There nothing to intercept one way or the other. "Fast is good, but accurate is better." .............Wyatt Earp Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2291 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, September 09, 2022 - 10:26 pm:    "mute" or "moot"? that is the question Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 810 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2022 - 03:54 pm:    A "mute" question? I'm speechless. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2292 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2022 - 05:09 pm:    LOL! Exactly! If you think about it, there's a little bit of sense in using that word - not much, and it's incorrect, but I see it used a lot. James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 355 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2022 - 10:48 pm:    George, I read Douglas Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid when it was first published. That book was virtually too much for a certain college freshman to absorb at the time but I have referred to my copy a few times over the past 40+ years. Loretta Sheridan Senior Member Username: leshrdn Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2021 Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 08:20 am:    Ditto Gail's and Dan's comments. And why type "This Page Left Intentionally Blank" (as opposed to just leaving blank): If you are working on a computer with a PDF you know if it is actually "blank" as opposed to waiting for it to fill in. Some large files take a while to fill in as you page through a document. As VisiSpecs and SpecLink both make it easy to add these at the end of sections, I don't see it as a problem. The government probably came up with that phrasing -- the government is great for that sort of thing. Greta Eckhardt (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 08:38 am:    If one prepares a separate pdf document for each section, there are ways of compiling multiple sections so that the printer identifies the first page of each section and prints the section accordingly. There should be no need for blank pages in this day and age. Stating "END OF SECTION" on the last page of a section is a good safeguard in case printed pages get mixed up, since it has a page number on it that identifies how many pages there should be for that section. Steven Bruneel, Retired Architect Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 710 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 03:28 pm:    Another reason to type "This Page Left Intentionally Blank" (as opposed to just leaving blank): Contractors and estimators looking at the documents become suspicious of blank pages, thinking they are missing something, or there was some sort of printing error leaving something out. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1509 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 04:37 pm:    How about "Placeholder Page" or "Pagination Page" or "Printer's courtesy page" or "Left-handed, odd-numbered last page" or "There is no information on this page" or "See next page" or "Really, that was the End of Section"... Brian Payne Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 281 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 04:40 pm:    So in summary: I'm avoiding the <Insert Preferred Term> pages altogether and just not including them. Thanks for the enjoyable thread. And please carry on posting here if you all would like. No reason to stop now. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1510 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 04:42 pm:    I stopped using blank pages about 15 years ago. No one ever said anything. Not once. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2293 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 04:50 pm:    I like the "Really, that was the End of Section - Not kidding!" Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 113 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 09:09 pm:    Lynn wins the Internet for today! Loretta Sheridan Senior Member Username: leshrdn Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2021 Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 - 09:17 am:    "No one ever said anything. Not once." Maybe not directly to you, but I am sure there were some subcontractors muttering under their breath. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1511 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 - 10:38 am:    Haha. With amount of complaining I've had to put up with on-site over the years I doubt they would have held back about that. Never met a complainer who was shy about complaining. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2294 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 - 11:28 am:    Thanks, Dan. I think Edward R Heinen CSI CDT CCS LEED-AP Senior Member Username: edwardheinen Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2022 Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 - 11:46 am:    As a deliverable quality standard, I'll produce project manual volumes to be both print-ready (even though they are digital/PDF) and view-ready - i.e sections are properly bookmarked for navigation. Print-ready for the reasons stated by others. I'll add "This page intentionally..." if required by owner/agency (govt. typ), but have never had an issue either way on a private project. All are automated using settings. If a section is added/deleted to the PDF volume, the bookmark needs to be added/deleted "manually". I find having to navigate PDF drawing sets without bookmarks, with scrambled, or dysfunctional bookmarks; and having to set my own bookmarks as I scroll to be a pain. I try to encourage drawing producers to print to PDF using a view-ready quality standard (but typically using guilt-trip-complainer tactics, which oddly don't work so well...). Leon Ruch (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 - 01:25 pm:    By default I issue a PDF package or binder (terminology varies depending on the version of Acrobat or Bluebeam). The list of files in the package serves as bookmarking, and the printer will automatically start each Section or document on the front of the paper, without the need for filler pages. Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP Senior Member Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip Post Number: 567 Registered: 02-2014 Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2022 - 11:58 pm:    I automated "blank" page insertion for odd page count spec sections quite a while back, and developed keystrokes that allow me to quickly find where they are needed and insert them where consultants did not do so. To me it just looks a LOT better in the event that someone prints a hardcopy manual. I don't know if they get printed very often, but I suspect that sometimes they still do. As far as helping people to chop up the project manual, that is considered inadvisable or even impermissible by many architects and specifiers, due to the lack of context and loss of coordination that may tend to happen by doing so. I checked CSI Practice Guides and A201 and I don't see where it is stated to not chop up the manual. I have seen it in specifications a few times, but can't seem to put my finger on where. I did not know that Procore and similar software is actually requiring the project manual to be split up! Ron Beard Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 486 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Monday, September 19, 2022 - 01:02 am:    There are others that need hard printed copies of the Project Manual outside of contracting/estimating circles; such as banks, lending institutions, bonding companies, etc. "Fast is good, but accurate is better." .............Wyatt Earp jpjordan@jordanconsultants.com (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, September 19, 2022 - 10:00 am:    Although I have never seen a prohibition against "chopping up" the Contract Documents (Drawings as well as specifications), the idea propably stems from the requirement to issue complete Bidding Documents back when we did hard copy (20 years ago). The idea was that the Owner and the Architect wanted Bidders to have all of the information that was required to develop a bid for the Work. This was an effort to guard against piecemeal information which might give some a reason to exclude something from a bid. This was reinforced through requirements for a deposit for each set of Bidding Documents. This deposit would be refunded for each complete set of Bidding Documents returned in good condition. Those sets in good condition would be issued to the successful Bidder for use as Contract Documents. Most Bidders on larger projects immediately disassembled the hard copy sets to give to subbidders amd material suppliers so the system was imperfect at best. Remember this was at a time when many Owners would require that a Contractor "self perform" most of the Work so that there were not as many subcontractors as there are today. Between 2000 and 2010, we moved away from relying entirely on hard copy (remember when diazo prints ceased to be available almost overnight in the mid 2000s?). Numerous companies that supporting bidders and subbidders began to offer documents on line so that one did not have to even download a file to print. A flooring contractor might do a takeoff for resilient base without ever seeing a set of Bidding Documents. Increasingly, hard copy Contracting Documents are becoming an anachronism except in certain specialized cases, usually having to do with legal issues. John W. O'Neil New member Username: john_oneil_csi_ccs Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2022 Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 - 11:39 am:    The final page of a spec section with the phrase THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK always seemed ridiculous, and superfluous, to me. So I only do it under duress. Setting up the pages of a Project Manual so that the first page of a spec section always occurs as a right-hand page is a nice refinement, but hardly worth the time it takes to do it, not to mention the wasted paper and the snickers the phrase usually inspires. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1520 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 - 12:03 pm:    And then there's the fact that someone along the way will add something somewhere to throw the whole thing off anyway. Even in the "old days" when we sent work out, the printers would slip sheet before printing with ACTUAL BLANK PIECES OF PAPER that didn't say anything on them. John W. O'Neil Junior Member Username: john_oneil_csi_ccs Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2022 Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 - 01:03 pm:    AIA A701 Instructions to Bidders is where the Bidders are directed to use complete sets of bidding documents in preparing bids: "§ 3.1.4 Bidders shall use complete Bidding Documents in preparing Bids. Neither the Owner nor Architect assumes responsibility for errors or misinterpretations resulting from the use of incomplete Bidding Documents."