Miscellaneous Rough Carpentry

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Author Message David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1877 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 02:16 pm:    I was sorry to see, in the latest update, that MasterSpec has removed Section 061053 Miscellaneous Rough Carpentry. I use this section all the time when I work on a metal stud building. I always need blocking, roof curbs, electrical backing panels, sleepers, and other nonstructural or nonframing type members. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Dave Heuring, AIA, CCCA, LEED AP Advanced Member Username: dave_heuring Post Number: 5 Registered: 06-2021 Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 03:17 pm:    I can see your disappointment. It was nice to have a section where a great deal of carpentry did not need to be weeded out. However Rough Carpentry is Rough Carpentry! Even though it's 'small' stuff, it is not really the unimportant 'Miscellaneous" stuff! The 06 10 00 section has these things... 1.2 SUMMARY: A. Section Includes: 1. Framing with dimension lumber. 2. Rooftop equipment bases and support curbs. 3. Wood blocking, cants, and nailers. 4. Wood furring and grounds. 5. Wood sleepers. 6. Utility shelving. 7. Plywood backing panels. One will just need to have a master that includes all the Product and Execution that goes along with them! They are making our job easier (more streamlined) and harder (more editing)! But then again, everyone tries to reinvent the wheel, don't we???! Brian Payne Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 244 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 03:42 pm:    It's funny since BSD just added this section which I assume was to align with Masterspec. Personally, I'm glad to see products only have a single "home". As someone who is responsible for managing our keynote system which uses the spec number, having multiple locations causes a bunch of down stream complications. As specs become more database dependant, I would expect changes like this to become more frequent. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1878 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 05:04 pm:    Speaking of single homes, I heard that engineered wood (LVL, I-Joist, PSL, etc.) is moving to their own individual section(s). I still continue to use the discontinued Section 033053 Miscellanous Cast-In-Place Concrete for minor pours or small jobs. A few months ago I was writing a school rennovation project where there were two new small equipment pads. I thought it silly to use three lenghty sections (formwork, rebar, and CIP concrete) for a few sacks of concrete. The Miscellaneous Concrete section worked great! David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 954 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 - 01:48 pm:    You should avoid a Misc CIP Concrete specification sections which could cause confusion as to what section applies to what work. If you have a small job where you are only dealing with misc items you can create a single specification that includes formwork and rebar. This reduced section may be abbreviated as appropriate. David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: davidc Post Number: 15 Registered: 02-2015 Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2021 - 10:04 am:    We'll keep using our 06 10 53 section as well. As for Misc. Concrete, we continue to use that one also. As for scope, we include the following list in the SUMMARY Article, to provide some differentiation / separation from the Structural Concrete section: . A. Section includes cast-in-place concrete, including formwork, reinforcement, concrete materials, mixture design, placement procedures, and finishes for miscellaneous applications, including but not limited to the following items: 1. Exterior: a. Thrust blocks for water utility piping. b. Encasement for conduits in underground ductbanks. c. Pads for plumbing cleanouts. d. Transformer pads. e. HVAC equipment pads. f. Foundations for ground-set flagpoles. g. Foundation for site light poles. h. Foundation for site light bollards. i. Foundations for fencing and gate posts. j. Pads for gate operators. k. Foundations for vehicle crash barriers. l. Foundations for ground-mounted site furnishings. m. Foundations for playing field equipment. n. Foundations for temporary project identification sign. o. Foundations for traffic and parking signage posts. p. Foundations for site wayfinding signage. q. Foundations for bollards. r. Concrete fill for pipe bollards. 2. Interior: a. Crawl space mud slabs b. M-E-P Equipment housekeeping pads. c. Locker curbs / bases. d. Fill for treads and platforms of metal pan stairs. e. Topping slab infill at existing slab depressions. f. Topping slab (over insulation) for walk-in coolers. g. Floor slab patching where cutting is required to accommodate new work. David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Corgan Associates, Inc. Senior Specifier David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1879 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2021 - 11:31 am:    Mark, I only use Section 033053 Miscellaneous CIP Concrete on projects that do not have concrete other than small non-structural pours (for example equipment pads). If there is a lot of concrete or the concrete is structurally holding something up, then I use the three concrete sections (formwork, rebar, CIP concrete). David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Edward J Dueppen, RA, CSI, CCS, LEED AP Senior Member Username: edueppen Post Number: 77 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 - 08:03 am:    I agree with David on the use of 06 1053 - Miscellaneous Rough Carpentry. We do a fair amount of multifamily residential and light commercial work that is wood-framed. For those projects we have a structural consultant use 06 1000 - Rough Carpentry for wood framing and then I provide 06 1053 for wood blocking. I am curious about Deltek's logic in removing this very useful section. I don't foresee the possibility of removing it from my standard lineup. I also use 03 3053 - Miscellaneous CIP Concrete for equipment pads and minor concrete work on projects without a structural consultant. T.J. Simons, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tsimons Post Number: 33 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2021 - 11:53 am:    I think I've used that Section on nearly every core and shell office building and hospital I've ever done, along with a wide variety of other projects. I tend to favor metal backing plates, etc over wood blocking, but any project with an Electrical room or IT closet will need a backing panel of some sort, not to mention countertop backing, etc. Well, nothing to stop anyone from editing down the 06 10 00 Section to create a Miscellaneous Rough Carpentry master John Bunzick Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1854 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2021 - 02:30 pm:    If all you need is a small piece of FRT plywood on a project, or similar very limited usage of any material where there's minimal technical content, I think a simple drawing note would be fine. We can easily overdo the specifying thing when, for certain things especially, the specs won't be noticed and everyone pretty much knows what to do. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1384 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2021 - 03:07 pm:    True John. Or we can include snippets within individual Sections where blocking is required even though that violates the "Say it once in the right place" rule. Sounds like a value judgement based on individual project needs Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 800 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2021 - 04:23 pm:    Per John and Ken: This is why the spec-o-matic (credit to John Regener, RIP) will never replace specifiers. Algorithms are no substitute for experience and judgement. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1385 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Friday, July 09, 2021 - 09:12 am:    So Dave, no Tesla-Spec? David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1880 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, July 09, 2021 - 03:02 pm:    I have even included a miscellaneous carpentry section on all wood-framed construction that had rough carpentry section! The structural engineer only wanted to see structural items in the rough carpentry section and the architect wanted to be sure to have all the non-structural wood items covered in another section. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 801 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Saturday, July 10, 2021 - 08:52 am:    Ken: Tesla-spec? Auto-pilot may be reliable enough for standard driving conditions. But when you’re on a curvy, narrow, single-lane road, with bikes oncoming, nearby trees, and no hands on the wheel or attempt to take over, it’s not the best use for auto-pilot. https://insideevs.com/news/518461/tesla-model3-autopilot-crash/ Similarly, automated specification systems are fine for uncomplicated buildings. Or even the first draft of specs for complex conditions. But beyond that, I’ll put my confidence in a specifier who’s been around the block a few times. Hope there won't now be a barrage of replies from Tesla owners. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1386 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Saturday, July 10, 2021 - 06:05 pm:    Dave, I'll advocate for driverless cars and automatic specs when warp drive or time travel are realities.