Sound dampening for steel stairs

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Author Message David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 333 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2021 - 11:46 am:    Good morning, 4 specs community. I am specifying steel stairs with steel treads for the Pro Football Hall of Fame hotel in Canton, Ohio, The project architect suggested we add spray-applied sound-damping material to the underside of the stairs to reduce the inevitable noise these stairs will generate. Have any of you had to do this? Any recommendations or success stories? Thank you in advance. Dave Wyatt ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1359 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2021 - 11:57 am:    David, are you thinking of using something like ICC's K13 - https://www.spray-on.com/k-13-acoustical/ or Sonoglass https://monoglass.com/sonoglass-acoustic-treatment/? I don't know if either will hold up over time with all that impact and vibration. Are you concerned about the insulation delaminating over time? Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 841 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2021 - 12:02 pm:    Steel treads? that does sound a bit noisy! I would recommend an adhered acoustic matt product under the treads and behind the risers, and then if possible, I would reccommend a spray applied textured acoustical pedestrian grade coating on top of the treads to help reduce direct impact noise and allow options for the contrasting stripe and so forth. Edward J Dueppen, RA, CSI, CCS, LEED AP Senior Member Username: edueppen Post Number: 76 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2021 - 12:03 pm:    Dave - my first guess would be to use a sound-deadening mastic, such as applied to the underside of stainless steel counters and the outside of trash chutes. But I don't have first-hand knowledge of how this works in the real-world. Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 842 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2021 - 12:13 pm:    I will expand on my initial response with real world feedback. I did a project for a large healthcare provider that promotes taking the stairs as part of their ThriveWalk initiatives. The Owner's rep was interested in budget, while the regional manager was interested in goals. So we got diamond plate stairs in a 3 story building in stairwells designed for frequent public and patient use.... Noise and slip were major concerns that we mitigated with the solution I listed above. In the end, it worked okay, but even the PM said he went too cheap on the stairs, but only because the damned architect insisted on these wearable surfaces that needed recoating every so often...(instead of using concrete pan treads like we begged him to do). David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1870 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2021 - 02:36 pm:    You might try the following: Daubert Chemical Company, V-Damp 3680: https://www.daubertchemical.com/products/vibration-sound-dampening/product/v-damp-3680 or Art USA Noise Control Products, VBD-10 Damping Compound: https://www.noisecontrolproducts.com/product/water-based-viscoelastic-damping-compounds/ David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Ed Storer Senior Member Username: ed_storer Post Number: 85 Registered: 05-2009 Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2021 - 04:02 pm:    I have to go along with Nathan. Concrete filled steel pans or precast stair treads are the only to go if you want a stair that doesn't resound with each footfall. Sound dampening mastic doesn't do much on what is essentially a drumhead that will sound every footfall. Depending on when and how that mastic is applied, it may cost as much as a tread with concrete. I've only used steel treads in exit stairs, that were not used for frequent floor-to-floor travel and were in a 2-hour enclosure. Cheap, fast, and meets code. If the footfall noise is a concern, I wouldn't specify a metal tread. Acoustic dampening coatings are good for trash chutes, but they don't do the job when it comes to frequent traffic on metal stair treads. Ed Storer, CSI Member Emeritus Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 601 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2021 - 05:32 pm:    I suspect your stair will be used for exiting, so will require whatever you apply to meet code. If they like the concept of metal, offer them a bar grate. Stiffer than sheet metal, they should have less vibration. And all the open area should reduce the concussive effect of footfalls. But really! Football fans are noisy. Give them what they are used to and be sure to use hard surfaces on walls to reflect the noise. I mean, the cheers of the crowds, the hubbub of the tailgate parties, and the impact of the tackles. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1155 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2021 - 12:03 pm:    I have always felt that resilient treads would do something to dampen the sound, but I have never seen any testing to support that view. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 695 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2021 - 03:01 pm:    At what point will the addition of sound deadening materials to the steel stair equal or exceed the cost of concrete filed pan treads? Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP, AIA Senior Member Username: rjray Post Number: 202 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2021 - 03:46 pm:    Hi Dave. I think I will get back to your original question and not provide editorial comments on what the architect designed for the stair. If permitted by code, a sound deadening mastic, similar to what is used in the food service industry under stainless steel countertops, may work. The product I use to specify is: A. Sound Deadening: Heavy-bodied resinous coating filled with granulated cork or other resilient material, compounded for permanent, non-aging, non-flaking adhesion to metal. 1. Applied thickness: 1/8 inch. 2. Finish: Aluminum paint. 3. Acceptable manufactures and product: a. Component Hardware: Q75-2000 Multiflec Sound Deadener. David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 334 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2021 - 01:57 pm:    Thanks, all of you, for your recommendations. Actually, I recommended the resilient treads that Peter Jordan suggested above, but I was denied due to cost. But, by the time the relatively small amount of sound damping material is purchased, shipped, and installed, we will have increased project cost and complexity (by adding a new material and a skilled applicator). At some point, the treads will be added, and it will appear that the design team was not informed or practical. I am getting old and impatient. Now I understand why similarly-situated people are susceptible to inappropriate laughter and profanity-laced invective. But, thank you for the good conversation. Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 625 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2021 - 02:06 pm:    yes and that brought to mind this little de-motivator from https://despair.com Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?" ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1370 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2021 - 02:11 pm:    Chin up lad. Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and the world laughs at you. Sometimes they point.