Looking for good defintion of "Refurb...

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Author Message Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 833 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2021 - 09:54 pm:    I am doing a renovation project of a 60 year old school building and there are some doors and light fixtures that we want to salvage (remove) and refurbish (reinstall) looking all pretty and properly functional. Does anyone have a good definition / verbiage for this? Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 834 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2021 - 09:56 pm:    I should clarify, I don't need the definition to go into any kind of detail related to doors or lights, I am just looking for a catch-all general definition. This will be supported by trade specific language going through the detail of what all needs to occur, "removal, cleaning, relampling, re-wiring, etc..." Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 612 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2021 - 10:07 pm:    in all seriousness, YOU define it. you will find that all the words, salvage, restore, demolish, etc will have varied definitions. for historic work I built a Division 01 section that defined a group of terms AND defined three different levels of material from Bricks remove, save but could go back anywhere...to objects that had to go in EXACTLY the same location the particular unit was removed from . BUT again I defined the terms. I did not use the word refurbish. I defined "restore" If you'd like i'll dig up that section historic demo section 024191_USER_RWAA Review.rtf (77.7 k) Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 613 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2021 - 10:08 pm:    found it and loaded it above Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 580 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2021 - 10:59 pm:    I had some projects like this. Long time ago, and I no longer have the documents. Woodwork: Do you want it to look like new or to look like a 60 year old building? Remove old finishes, sand, and refinish? If they fire-rated door or other rated doors, you may have to make new doors to look like old doors in order to get the performance verified. Does the hardware need to be upgraded or will you just clean, lubricate, and reinstall existing? Lighting: Take everything apart, strip any finishes from metal and glass. Clean, polish, refinish. Completely rewire to new electrical code requirements. Another option: Owner should hire a craftsperson they trust to remove and refurbish. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 614 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2021 - 12:50 am:    of course you do know we sell a full selection of spec sections for historic preservations...just sayin J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1143 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2021 - 10:54 am:    The "refurbished" light fixtures may need to comply with current energy code requirements. I say this not knowing what your intention really is. If the doors are exterior doors, you may need to consider energy code considerations. Certain items may be "grandfathered" especially with historic preservation considerations, but for more routine projects, refurbishing existing items may not be in the Owner's best interest. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1337 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2021 - 12:24 pm:    Curious how to refurbish light fixtures without incurring an incredible level of liability. Light fixtures are usually UL or ETL listed - https://insights.regencylighting.com/ul-listed-or-etl-listed. I don't think it's enough to even require a licensed master electrician to certify the work. Can you insert a listed fixture into the refurbished housing so it looks like the original fixture? Edward J Dueppen, RA, CSI, CCS, LEED AP Senior Member Username: edueppen Post Number: 70 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2021 - 06:01 pm:    Ken's concerns for light fixtures are important. For a university project I had many years ago we were also concerned about refurbishing light fixtures that the Owner wanted to save. Ultimately we negotiated to have the Owner contract out the refurbishing so that our contractor only removed and then reinstalled the "Owner-provided" light fixture. Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 835 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2021 - 07:18 pm:    Marc, thank you for the sample, and your advice is spot on. To the others. Refurbish might be too strong a word. I have an elevated plaza surrounded by precast parapets with "step lights" recessed into the precast. These are the lights I want to refurbish. Some are broken, some of full of cobwebs, some are bashed in and dented, some have growey things come out of them. My desire is to pull off the louvered covers, clean the reflectors, relamp them all, clean and repaint the covers. I'll just have the drawings updated to spell that out. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 678 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 01:26 pm:    Nathan: I think "refurbish" is a good term for what you are describing, as I don't find the term used in the Dept of Interior Historic Preservation Briefs or in the MasterSpec Historic package. It should mean whatever you say it does. Thanks Ken for your comments on light fixtures; wrestling with that one right now. Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA SpecGuy Specifications Consultants www.SpecGuy.com phil@specguy.com Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 922 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 02:13 pm:    REFURBISH simply means: verb: renovate and redecorate (something, especially a building) Similar Meanings: renovate, recondition, rehabilitate, revamp, make over, overhaul Add your choice of definition to a Division 01 section or include in the drawings for demolition notations. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1338 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 02:15 pm:    Nathan, it looks like you almost have a spec written though I don't think "growey things" is quantifiable. Showing bidders what to do on the drawings for each light makes the contractor's life easier than creating an allowance but obviously more work for you. Still, it's all about the communication. As to having to use listed fixtures, yeah, been through that exercise. Like pushing a rope. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 692 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 05:10 pm:    If the existing lights are low voltage, or can be converted to low voltage, I would think issues of electrical contractor liability, UL/ETL listing, etc., would diminish.