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Author Message Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, June 24, 2019 - 11:01 am:    Just received e-mail about elimination of Word for MacOS, and alternative use of SpecBuilder Cloud. As Windows user, I'm not affected...now, at least, but going forward, I suppose that Windows elimination would also occur...as a prudent "business decision" on their part. I was previously unaware that my current license included SpecBuilder Cloud; I did read info about it on website. My question now is has anyone actually used SpecBuilder Cloud for their project specs and/or office masters? If so, how has it worked for you? Were there any negatives, e.g., exporting to Word files (to contractually deliver to some project owners)? Any other thoughts...would be appreciated. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1786 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 01:56 pm:    I have not used SpecBuilder Cloud, but was thinking about what it means to "discontinue MasterSpec" for the Mac OS. This can only effectively mean that MasterWorks will no longer be supported, since the Word files themselves could always be edited on a Mac with MS Office installed. Nevertheless, I suppose there will be some number of people who will be bothered by this. Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 774 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 02:45 pm:    I'm not familiar with SpecBuilder Cloud, but if it uses Office365, then the platform doesn't matter. It's pretty universal between a PC, iPad, Mac, etc... Second Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 10:59 am:    The biggest advantage of Sec Builder Cloud is to Deltek. It allows them to extract more information about the manufactures and products subscribers included in their projects, which Deltek passes on to the manufactures that have paid Deltek a substantial fee for enhanced listings and/or product masterspec. The disadvantage of Spec Builder Cloud is that the Q and A needs work. There are some sections where text is deleted that should not be deleted after responding to a specific question, and there are some instances where text is not deleted when it should be deleted. This suggests someone other than a knowledgeable specification writer was responsible for creating the links in spec build cloud. Which brings up the subject of masterspec including many manufactures and products that do not meet the applicable product requirements that masterspec includes. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 08:38 pm:    It's database-driven, so I presume "works" much like BSD Spec-Link, where one cannot directly edit Word files, but only export from database to Word-format file? This is the type of confirmation that I was hoping for from any SpecBuilder Cloud users out there? Jeffrey Potter Senior Member Username: jpotter Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2017 Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 01:53 pm:    Spec Builder Cloud is basically e-Specs for Revit, but in the cloud and without the connection to Revit. It is server based and was told it can work with their (Deltek) out of the box masters (AIA Masterspec) as well as custom office masters. They say its a solution for smaller firms, but larger firms they recommend e-Specs for Revit. Third Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 02:31 pm:    IMO, SpecBuilder Cloud is NOT like e-SPECS for Revit without the Revit connection. I would say it is closer to the MasterWorks Word Plugin than e-SPECS, but there are some significant differences. It could be compared to BSD Speclink Cloud as they resemble each other, but I don't think it will be as robust as Speclink can be. For example, I don't think you can create and change links or mappings in SpecBuilder Cloud like you can in Speclink Cloud and e-SPECS. It also offers no connection to Revit if that wasn't clear already. One advantage over MasterWorks (and something that approximates some functionality of e-SPECS) is the Q&A. I thought the Q&A was ok, but I never tested it extensively to support the Second Guest's comment as accurate or not. You can edit section text in the editor window (basically a WYSIWYG editor). You do have to turn on and off paragraphs like you do in Speclink Cloud, but they are all on by default instead of all off by default like in Speclink Cloud (I take issue with the concept of editing by addition only). Notes to specifier are visible in the same window unlike Speclink Cloud. And overall, I think editing the section is slightly more intuitive than it is in Speclink Cloud, but only slightly ... I don't think either are that intuitive if I'm being honest. When you're done editing you can publish PDFs, as well as Word files for future editing. The thing you might miss from MasterWorks is the multi-file processing and reporting functions. I don't think there is anything in SpecBuilder Cloud that does this. You can change and edit the projects header/footer and set up the TOC, but I don't think there is anything that will let you run a submittals report for example. You can still use MasterSpecs manufacturer tool to select manufacturers, products, BOD products like you can in MasterWorks. You can upload your own files, if you have office masters you would rather use, but you would lose the Q&A function if that matters to you. Overall, I see SpecBuilder Cloud as something more intuitive to use as a basic editor and you like MasterSpec content out of the box. It would also be a potential stepping stone to more robust database systems like Speclink and e-SPECS if you're not ready to jump into those yet. I do not know how updates to sections are handled in SpecBuilder Cloud. Finally, if you are interested in e-SPECS for Revit without the connection to Revit ... look at e-SPECS Linx. From my use of the software they are identical, except for the connection to Revit. It is also not in the cloud if that is an issue for you, or your clients. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1551 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 03:32 pm:    I've used SpecBuilder CLoud on a couple of projects. In its current state, it is just okay--it can be much better and probably will be with the help of the Deltek buyout. My biggest problem with the system is the output. You can format some things, but not all things. The output, in my opinion, was crappy. Masterworks does not work well with the output, so I had to write a huge formating macro to fix everything I had a problem with. There are some in-app editing idiosyncracies that are annoying, but I can overcome that with my macro as well. I'm still in the experimentation stage and haven't fully committed to it yet. Ron Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1803 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 03:14 pm:    A fellow specifier, who uses Apple, tried to download the updates today. She was unable to do so. She tried to call Deltek but they no longer have phone support. She emailed them and got a response back from Deltek trying to get her to switch to SpecBuilder Cloud. I forgot to ask her if SpecBuilder Cloud is available on Apple. I doubt it. I feel sorry for her because I am not sure what she is going to do for writing specifications other than develop and use her own masters. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Third Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 04:31 pm:    David, SpecBuilder Cloud is run through your web browser. It shouldn't matter if you are using Mac or PC. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 07:29 pm:    To 2nd Guest - When I "looked" at Spec-Link many years ago, I was not impressed by the lack of "intelligence" in their intelligent "links"; yeah...deletions of related text where, in my opinion, it shouldn't, and vice-versa. Sounds like your analysis/experience with SpecBuilder Cloud is similar; maybe it's just it's similar early "growing" stages...since Spec-Link seems to have "improved" in this respect? In any case, a Deltek rep e-mailed me, saying there is no "roadmap" (at least currently) to eliminate Word for Windows, but I can foresee an eventual future that Word file users will be faced with same dilemma as David's fellow Mac user, even though MacOS had "technical issues" that lead to it's demise. The Deltek rep also thought that SpecBuilder Desktop (which I didn't know even existed?) would likely be the next product to "go". I guess as with most anything these days, change is inevitable, whether good, bad, or indifferent? We all had better get used to it. Unnumbered Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 08:35 pm:    Eliminating customer telephone support to Masterspec subscribers is shocking to me. So much for customer service. I remember when ARCOM was as much about customer service as they were about content. Both seem to be low on the list of priorities in today’s world of Masterspec. I have been told that Deltek/Avitru has, for the past year or more, planned to discontinue all Word documents and get everyone onto their cloud-based system (Spec Builder Cloud.) As stated above, this will allow Deltek to obtain a lot more specific information on what is being specified on specific projects, information which they will continue to pass on to the manufactures that pay Deltek money. I wonder if AIA, who owns Masterspec content, could step in and take a greater role in what is happening to Masterspec since the investment company bought ARCOM, and not with Deltek taking over. Gail Ann J. Goldstead, AIA, CSI, CDT, LEED AP, BD+C Senior Member Username: ggoldstead Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2015 Posted on Friday, June 28, 2019 - 09:39 am:    I checked my contact #'s at Deltek + Avitru. Their website says their Tech Support is (800) 424-5080, I called, that # is still valid. Since I'm in Chicago, they are at least 1 hour behind, usually you can get ahold of them mid-late morning. They've always had fairly decent tech support for me. Gail Goldstead Gail Ann J. Goldstead, AIA, CSI, CDT, LEED AP, BD+C Senior Member Username: ggoldstead Post Number: 21 Registered: 03-2015 Posted on Friday, June 28, 2019 - 09:48 am:    Also, I do not think Deltek + Avitru has any plans to get rid of their word docs. I looked into using their web-based service. It's primary advantage supposedly is if you want to collaborate with other entities not in your office on the cloud. I'm not using their cloud service. I'm the only spec writer in my office. We have many ways to share if I want. Usually there is a stronger need to keep younger architects away from messing with the specs. Their cloud platform makes no sense for me. Otherwise, generally I'm OK with Deltek + Avitru's Masterspec. It's a good starting point. However, we still keep and use our own masters because some of our specs address special criteria. Gail Goldstead T.J. Simons, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tsimons Post Number: 19 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Friday, June 28, 2019 - 11:13 am:    The following summarizes my understanding of Deltek Avitru's current MasterSpec delivery platforms: Spec Builder Cloud - Default delivery system for new MasterSpec subscribers e-Specs Linx - e-Specs database without the capability of full Revit integration e-Specs for Revit - e-Specs database with Revit integration capability. You may want to contact Avitru directly with questions about MS Word files/MasterWorks. This isn't shown on their website as far as I know, but there are many, many subscribers using the Word platform, so I expect there is still something in place to serve them. As far as extracting information, I believe e-Specs users can opt out of sharing information on product selections with Deltek when you create a project. Third Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, June 28, 2019 - 01:09 pm:    "As far as extracting information, I believe e-Specs users can opt out of sharing information on product selections with Deltek when you create a project." That used to be the case with older versions of the software, but that functionality is gone from more recent versions. I know that some users complained about the software tracking product selections ... so I don't know if tracking was abandoned for the time being, or if they simply removed the ability to opt out. I'd love to hear if anyone knows more about this. Downloading MS Word files/MasterWorks is still supported for PC users as a MasterSpec delivery option. I just logged in and checked and it was allowing me to do this when you have selected the PC operating system option. If you select the Mac OS option in the process though, you are given a message that it is no longer supported for Mac. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1804 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, June 28, 2019 - 02:31 pm:    It's only a matter of time (my guess is a year) where Deltek will stop supporting Microsoft Word / MasterWorks in order to push subscribers into SpecBuilder Cloud. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 486 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, June 28, 2019 - 08:42 pm:    ok it's been a long week but it's all over now and I have a few minutes to (I hope) answer a few questions. I've just recently joined Deltek and the MasterSpec crew as "Technical Director". That job description is still in some flux and I'm learning things every day. SO please bear with me if I make a misstatement and have to restate something in a later post. 1. Yes. The decision to halt Mac support was a business decision. Each platform requires a considerable amount of work and these decisions are not made capriciously. We know that by removing a platform we may lose those clients to a competitor. they are never make lightly. Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 487 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, June 28, 2019 - 08:58 pm:    2. There are a couple basic rules around a manufacturer being listed in MasterSpec. The product must have nation wide distribution and meet the minimum criteria that our staff of professional architects and engineers, and the MasterSpec Architectural Review Committee and MasterSpec Engineering Review Committee (MARC/MERC committees), establish. We list these manufacturers whether they have an enhanced listing or not. If we have missed one of these please bring them to our attention. 3. Please alert us to any “bad” questions or “missed” answers in our Q&A products. We are constantly reviewing and improving the Q and A. 4. One of the hallmarks of the MasterSpec brand is that our content is paramount. We spend countless hours working on which manufacturer’s products fit the product category and which do not. 4.a. To be honest this causes some consternation on the part of some manufacturers who would like their product placed where in our opinion it does not fit. 4.b. The manufacturer listings are updated as products change and not on the fixed review cycle of the sections. This allows us to keep the latest product information available. On occasion this will mean that the section may be “older” than the current product listings in SpecAgent. 5. MasterSpec does not share personal or project identifiable data with manufacturers. Any information that is shared is anonymous and aggregated to a level which makes it impossible to determine who specified what. Period. We publicly made that statement in April of 2018 and it’s still true. https://avitru.com/privacy/ https://avitru.com/building-customer-trust-2/ Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 488 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, June 28, 2019 - 09:06 pm:    6. When using SpecBuilder Cloud (SBC) you are not working in any Microsoft "Office" product. Once you have done all the work (Q&A, inline selection, or manufacturer selection) you can export the file to your computer where you open a Microsoft Word File . This file is traditional MasterSpec file with its styles and any remaining choices yet to be made. So you can continue to work on the file in Word as you would have without SBC Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 489 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, June 28, 2019 - 09:28 pm:    7. I do not know all of the intricacies of the data collection. However, please see my answer about privacy above. 8. As for support, it is available for all of our products. However, Our MAC support was for the older Office application which I believe is no longer supported by Apple. 9. David and unregistered guest, we will not be removing support for Word based documents for some time (far more than 2-3 years) as we have many users who are committed to that delivery method. I think I have captured most of the concerns that have been posted above. Many of the rumours guests have listed above are just that and as completely wrong as they can be. We are committed to having the best content available in the USA and to continue to improve our products. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 295 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 09:30 am:    Marc, it is great comfort to have one of our own (meaning a long-time participant in the 4specs forum) privy to the inner workings of MasterSpec. Thanks very much for sharing this vital info. The prospect that direct support for Word and MasterWorks might one day be eliminated concerns me greatly, so its good to hear this isn't imminent. Having taken a deep dive into the major database spec systems and found them untenable for my practice makes me very wary of being limited to this type of system. In my experience, nothing comes close to the reliability and ease of editing Word documents assisted by MasterWorks. So far, the "intelligent" programs have proved deeply flawed and cumbersome. I sincerely hope that Deltek develops a thorough understanding of the shortcomings and is able to solve the myriad problems with these systems -- and then conducts a robust testing period to obtain user feedback -- well before one of them is made the only option for users of MasterSpec. Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 775 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 10:58 pm:    Marc, thanks for sharing your info, that is very helpful to know. Sure seems like an odd path forward. A cloud based service should be browser based and platform agnostic. What MasterSpec is doing seems....very behind in terms of technilogical progression. MasterSpec is both a product and a tool. It appears the tool portion has been neglected, and is now costing you customers. Abandoning Mac without having an online equivalent is very short sighted. What do millennials use? Who will be our future spec writers. Hmmmm Ronald L. Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1552 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2019 - 11:39 pm:    The cloud-based service does use the browser--there is no need for a separate application. That is why they are directing Mac users to SpecBuilder Cloud. Ron Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 776 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 12:54 am:    Ron, if that’s the case, then I retract 100% of my comments. I don’t always enjoy being wrong, but this is a case where I am pleased to be in the wrong! Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 490 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2019 - 11:21 pm:    Millennials will use their phones.. We are working on several things and Ron is correct SBC, is "browser/cloud based" and is NOT our final statement on browser based spec writing.....be assured we are absolutely seeking to understand the short comings of databases, the cloud and Word. ...as fast as we can! Third Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 01:27 pm:    Marc, I appreciate your input and helping to set the record straight. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1097 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 03:02 pm:    Baby-boomers use stone tablets and chisels; no wait, make that typewriters, spirit duplicators, and stencils. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 667 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 03:17 pm:    I remember buying and setting up my first computer in 1991. The first thing I did with it was to format, print out and send an invoice to a residential house client that paid for the computer. The typewriter went in the closet. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1453 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 04:24 pm:    Peter, I don't know about you, but I use Windows, Bluebeam and various sharing programs for specs. We do not keep our specs in the cloud due to some client-generated NDA requirements. Its been my experience that processing the specs is not the problem -- its getting a good review by the project architect. (and you don't need software for that) Hadley Breckenridge Senior Member Username: hadleybreck Post Number: 15 Registered: 07-2018 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 04:26 pm:    with this new SpecBuilder Cloud- I am seeing that some specs (like several electrical) do not have fl, sf, or outline form. In those cases- there are Manufacturer's forms. I've never seen those for those specifications. Has anyone dealt with this? Are there some specs that need to be bought or are not typically included in this new updated Specbuilder Cloud? I see a lot more specs in MasterSpec the way it was- and I'm not sure about revising, deleting or replacing those specs when updating them because of what has happened to them in this new software. I'm confused. Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 573 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 04:27 pm:    have you contacted support? Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 574 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 04:34 pm:    These may be Product MasterSpec Sections that we are starting to roll out for your use in SBC Hadley Breckenridge Senior Member Username: hadleybreck Post Number: 17 Registered: 07-2018 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 04:50 pm:    I just sent a message to support- so I have not heard back yet. Almost all of division 23 are missing the typical format specs (sf, of, or fl). I see no sf, of, or fl in division 26, 27 or 28. the center of the image should have a column for each format - short form, outline form and full length. Hadley Breckenridge Senior Member Username: hadleybreck Post Number: 18 Registered: 07-2018 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 04:53 pm:    Hadley Breckenridge Senior Member Username: hadleybreck Post Number: 19 Registered: 07-2018 Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2020 - 11:49 am:    Looks like it has to do with what package you purchase. We had purchased more specs than this when we had masterspecs. they should have known that. Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 575 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2020 - 12:54 pm:    Yes, My checking just arrived at the same conclusion, but had not had time to post it yet...so you are ahead of me..."they" should be both your folks and our folks talking about what you need to do what you do. Product MasterSpecs all start from the base of MasterSpec. If one of those fits most of the requirements, grab that one and start editing, adding in what you need. If not this forum is a great place to find someone who has written that odd section you don't have. water pumping Windmills? you can find it here on the discussion forum.