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Melissa J Aguiar
Senior Member
Username: melissajaguiar

Post Number: 22
Registered: 09-2015
Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2023 - 03:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Would any of you have a section for refractory cast-in-place concrete, or a refractory masonry section?
Thanks in advance!
Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap
Senior Member
Username: lgoodrob

Post Number: 422
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 10:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I rarely see refractory masonry, typically only for traditional design single family homes and historic restorations. I usually just add a few lines to the regular unit masonry section, like this for Part 2:
- Firebox Brick: ASTM C 1261, size required to produce lining thickness indicated.
- Refractory Mortar Mix: Ground fireclay or non-water-soluble, calcium aluminate, medium-duty refractory mortar that passes ASTM C 199 test; or an equivalent product acceptable to authorities having jurisdiction.
And in Part 3:
- Set firebox brick in full bed of refractory mortar with full head joints.
That's about it. I didn't know you could get refractory CIP concrete. Interesting... Keep us posted.
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg

Post Number: 1574
Registered: 12-2006

Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

ACI doesn't seem to have much to say about refractory concrete: https://www.concrete.org/topicsinconcrete/topicdetail/refractory?search=refractory

Wouldn't this be addressed in the Structural design mix?
Melissa J Aguiar
Senior Member
Username: melissajaguiar

Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2015
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

No structural engineer assigned to this from my understanding. It was handed to civil engr.
Steven Bruneel, Retired Architect
Senior Member
Username: redseca2

Post Number: 719
Registered: 12-2006

Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 02:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

The purpose for using refactory masonry isn't directly structural, only indirectly as "a material that doesn't lose its strength when subjected to heat, pressure or chemical attack" (per wiki), so I could foresee a classic finger pointing duel regarding which discipline defines the scope on their drawings.
Brian E. Trimble, CDT
Senior Member
Username: brian_e_trimble_cdt

Post Number: 136
Registered: 08-2005

Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 02:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

JT Thorpe is one of the biggest refractory contractors in the country. I don't have a specific person as a contact, but here is their website for contacting a local office: https://jtthorpe.com/contact/.
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg

Post Number: 1575
Registered: 12-2006

Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 05:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Unless the masonry firebox is structural I would not expect the civil/structural engineer to design it. I would however expect the civil or structural engineer to design the concrete mix if the design requires refractory concrete.

For refractory masonry I have used similar wording as Lisa with good results. I don't believe I've ever resorted to a separate Section.

I would certainly not be adverse to reaching out the Brian's contact to get their thoughts.

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