Refractory C-I-P and Refractory Mason...

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Author Message Melissa J Aguiar Senior Member Username: melissajaguiar Post Number: 22 Registered: 09-2015 Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2023 - 03:50 pm:    Would any of you have a section for refractory cast-in-place concrete, or a refractory masonry section? Thanks in advance! Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 422 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 10:16 am:    Melissa, I rarely see refractory masonry, typically only for traditional design single family homes and historic restorations. I usually just add a few lines to the regular unit masonry section, like this for Part 2: - Firebox Brick: ASTM C 1261, size required to produce lining thickness indicated. - Refractory Mortar Mix: Ground fireclay or non-water-soluble, calcium aluminate, medium-duty refractory mortar that passes ASTM C 199 test; or an equivalent product acceptable to authorities having jurisdiction. And in Part 3: - Set firebox brick in full bed of refractory mortar with full head joints. That's about it. I didn't know you could get refractory CIP concrete. Interesting... Keep us posted. - ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1574 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 10:28 am:    ACI doesn't seem to have much to say about refractory concrete: https://www.concrete.org/topicsinconcrete/topicdetail/refractory?search=refractory Wouldn't this be addressed in the Structural design mix? Melissa J Aguiar Senior Member Username: melissajaguiar Post Number: 23 Registered: 09-2015 Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 10:49 am:    No structural engineer assigned to this from my understanding. It was handed to civil engr. Steven Bruneel, Retired Architect Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 719 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 02:06 pm:    The purpose for using refactory masonry isn't directly structural, only indirectly as "a material that doesn't lose its strength when subjected to heat, pressure or chemical attack" (per wiki), so I could foresee a classic finger pointing duel regarding which discipline defines the scope on their drawings. Brian E. Trimble, CDT Senior Member Username: brian_e_trimble_cdt Post Number: 136 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 02:53 pm:    JT Thorpe is one of the biggest refractory contractors in the country. I don't have a specific person as a contact, but here is their website for contacting a local office: https://jtthorpe.com/contact/. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1575 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, June 26, 2023 - 05:04 pm:    Unless the masonry firebox is structural I would not expect the civil/structural engineer to design it. I would however expect the civil or structural engineer to design the concrete mix if the design requires refractory concrete. For refractory masonry I have used similar wording as Lisa with good results. I don't believe I've ever resorted to a separate Section. I would certainly not be adverse to reaching out the Brian's contact to get their thoughts.