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Robert Swan, FCSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: robeswan

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2016
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 04:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

The Owner wants to install an electronic leak detection system in a currently being designed project. As the the Architectural specifier do I get this or do I get to pass this to the Electrical Consultant?
Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: presbspec

Post Number: 358
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 04:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

It should be part of your roofing system spec.
There is a coordination element with the electrical source but it should be part of the roofing system.
Edward J Dueppen, RA, CSI, CCS, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: edueppen

Post Number: 86
Registered: 08-2013
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 04:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

This is an architectural item. AIA Masterspec has some decent language in their roofing specs for addition of ELD systems.

I recommend talking to Detec and ILD about options. In order to work properly they need to be continuously monitored which means ongoing costs for the Owner. The Owner needs to understand this before you include it so they can weigh the benefits and risks.
Brian Payne
Senior Member
Username: brian_payne

Post Number: 302
Registered: 01-2014
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 04:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Electronic Leak Detection (ELD) Testing: Test roofing areas for leaks using ELD method that locates discontinuities in membrane roofing in accordance with ASTM D7877 or ASTM D8231.
Testing agency to submit Daily Field Report (DFR) in accordance with ASTM D8231 indicating daily details of work performed.
Testing agency to submit training certification to ensure that technician performing ELD testing is currently certified in accordance with relevant training program.

Also, I've been told some of the primers for leak protection systems can have compatibility issues with the roofing system. I don't remember the specifics though.
Melody Fontenot
New member
Username: melodyccs

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2023
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 07:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I updated the MasterSpec ELD language a few years ago when I worked there; glad to hear it is 'decent', hehe! I'll take it!
There is more information on the different types of ELD testing in the MS Evaluations.

-Not all ELD systems require coordination with electrical, some use a conductive membrane (fluid or sheet) directly below the roof membrane which responds to the testing equipment
-No requirement for continuous monitoring, this is an option and will make a difference on which type of ELD system to use (monitored systems are usually 'wired' and do require coord with elec)
-EPDM membranes are conductive, so use a slightly different system
-Yes to consulting with the ELD manufacturer directly to make sure you select the appropriate type of testing and system and spec all the necessary components
Melody Fontenot, AIA, CSI, CCCA, CCS, CDT, LEED AP, SCIP
Portland, OR
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg

Post Number: 1557
Registered: 12-2006

Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 08:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I agree with Melody.

Detec offers a conductive primer that complies with the two ASTM standards that Brian listed. Both standards apply. See https://www.greenroofs.com/2020/09/08/detec-systems-adheres-to-new-astmd8231-standard-practice-for-performing-electronic-leak-detection-on-roofing-and-waterproofing/ for more information.

ILD uses a conductive mesh, not too dissimilar from chicken wire from what I can tell, but there is some discussion as to placement.

Note that in order to comply with the ASTM standards the conductive plane has to be directly under the membrane.

Numerous roofing manufacturers have now tested using Detec TruGround (the conductive primer) and have achieved at least 60 PSF wind uplift with most exceeding 90 psf. A quick RoofNav search with just listing Detec as manufacturer of the substrate primer under "Specification" in the Assembly Search https://www.roofnav.com/AssemblySearch#Specifications yields 10,786 assemblies.

I'd say the question about how effective the primer is regarding wind uplift has been answered.

Robert, if you'd care to have a short sidebar about this, I'd be happy to talk with you. Please drop me a line at kenhercenberg at gmail and let's set up a time.
Grant Otto (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2023 - 03:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

If the Owner is still interested in the active leak detection systems which alert in the event of a breach, you can have them check us out as well. http://www.sentinelrooftechnologies.com.

We use sensors throughout the roof assembly wired to a monitoring panel and if water penetrates the assembly an email gets to sent to the owner with maps showing the location. We also have a customer portal where they can view the information.

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