Tie-breaker?

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Author Message David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1811 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 12:55 pm:    In all my years in architecture I have never heard of this happening. I was informed yesterday by one of my architectural clients that two low bids (on a public project) came in EXACTLY the same! The client and architect decided to rebid the project. Have you ever had this situation? What have you done? David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 299 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 01:07 pm:    COLLUSION maybe? Of course the odds are low, but it's bound to happen sometime by the law of averages. I don't suppose the procurement laws allow negotiating w/ the low bidders, which would be a lot more efficient than a complete rebid. Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1812 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 01:20 pm:    I also initially thought collusion, but it certainly did not do the two bidders any good. This is a perfect scenario where alternates would have been advantageous. The architect is not changing anything about the project in order to rebid. I cannot see a bidder giving a different bid for the same project, unless they really wanted the job. The two times I have been involved with a rebid, many bidders refused to resubmit another bid. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Chris Sanders Senior Member Username: chris_sanders Post Number: 16 Registered: 05-2016 Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 01:44 pm:    Never had this happen (unfortunately!) at a bid opening I attended, but a past client once settled a public-bid tie with a coin toss. Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 01:51 pm:    Can't speak for any other states, but here in California, Public Contract Code Section 20166 says: "If two or more bids are the same and the lowest, the legislative body may accept the one it chooses." David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1818 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 03:21 pm:    I just received news of the results of the rebid of the previously tied project. The low bidder was only one percent below the previous two tied amounts! The two firms that were tied did not rebid the job. The architect wisely put a few alternates in the project in case of yet another tie. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Joe Edwards (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 01:22 pm:    David - Your first post indicated it was a public project; your most recent post said the architect put in a few alternates. Public projects generally are bid and awarded with a clearly defined SOW, not with alternates as it is not possible to clearly identify the low bidder without the impression of favoring someone. How did the alternates work in determining the lowest, responsive, responsible bidder? BTW - I have handled one project where there was a tie between two bidders. Both agreed to cut the cards. New deck used, opened and shuffled in front of them. First contractor cut a 3. Second contractor cut a 2. Both were happy. David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 309 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 04:54 pm:    Public projects in the state of Ohio are awarded based on the aggregate total of the Base Bid and accepted alternates. So, sometimes the lowest bidder on the Base Bid does not end up having the lowest aggregate after the accepted alternates are factored. I am not sure of the bidding rules in other states, but I would bet some if not most are similar. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 302 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 05:04 pm:    It works similarly here in Pennsylvania. Alternates are frequently used in publicly bid projects, but must be accepted in the sequence in which they're arranged in the bidding documents. Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 05:09 pm:    In California, we are required to publish in the invitation to bid exactly which alternates will be included in determining the low bidder - the owner then still has the option of including or excluding each alternate, but only after the notice of award. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1231 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 05:09 pm:    In the past I worked on projects for jurisdictions where we were tasked with listing Alternates in order of importance. As the Alternates were accepted the pricing was adjusted. As soon as an Alternate in the list was not accepted or the upset budget amount was reached, no Alternates further down the list could be considered (so the order of listing was important). Very curious way of doing business. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1819 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 - 12:25 am:    All my public work projects in Washington state have alternates. A few alternates, in my opinion, is okay, but a lot of alternates means the architect (and cost estimator) are clueless as to the real cost of the project. The dirty little secret, that everyone knows about, is that alternates are sometimes use to exclude a bidder. I worked on one project where an alternate was not taken which would exclude a certain contractor. Then mid project the school district then adds the work of that alternate back in. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1790 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 - 10:28 am:    Massachusetts requires alternates to be accepted in order, with award going to the lowest bidder including selected alternates. Once project is awarded is made, the awarding authority cannot add back work that was in an alternate that wasn't accepted. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1820 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 - 11:43 am:    John, The procedure that you described makes a lot of sense. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC