When did they change design phase nom...

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Author Message Brian E. Trimble, CDT Senior Member Username: brian_e_trimble_cdt Post Number: 72 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 11:34 am:    Did I miss it or has the "Pre-Construction Phase" been renamed the "Bidding/Negotiations Phase"? I couldn't find anything on the CSI or AIA website about this. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 735 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 02:52 pm:    That's now known as the "Addendum Phase." Alan Mays, AIA Senior Member Username: amays Post Number: 168 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 03:28 pm:    Actually that is just the continuation of CDs. Also known as "Continuing Design". LOL! Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 737 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 04:41 pm:    The Construction Phase is now the Change Order Phase. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1199 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 04:49 pm:    And the post-construction phase is the "unresolved claims phase." Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Brian E. Trimble, CDT Senior Member Username: brian_e_trimble_cdt Post Number: 73 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 05:00 pm:    Guys... I'm trying to be serious here, seriously. Where can I find the current list of project phases... online...that's current? Thanks Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1200 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 05:14 pm:    Look at CSI's "Project Delivery Practice Guide." I don't believe the phases of a project have changed any. To my knowledge, they are still... - Schematic Design - Design Development - Construction Documents - Bidding/Negotiation/Procurement - Construction Of course, different delivery methods may modify these slightly (Design-Build, for example). Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 738 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 05:17 pm:    I'm not sure where you see these terms, but without seeing definitions, I would say the Pre-Construction Phase includes bidding and negotiations, as well as all of the things that happen to get there. The definitions may vary, depending on whose documents you're using. The AIA Handbook (not online that I know of) may define those terms one way, while ConsensusDocs may have different definitions. The Construction Management Association of America has an online guide at http://bit.ly/Pl54hN. Having said that, it is hard to imagine any great variation in those specific terms, and I don't know why the entire pre-construction phase would be renamed the bidding/negotiation phase, a much narrower description. Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 133 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 05:23 pm:    I usually see the term "Preconstruction Phase" being used from a contractor's point of view, when a contractor is on board during design. It's programming/schematic design/design development/construction documents. It wouldn't include any bidding. Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 05:27 pm:    This is from the description of AIA A133, which is for use between owner and construction manager, when the construction manager is also the general contractor: "The document divides the construction manager’s services into two phases: the preconstruction phase and the construction phase." https://www.aiabookstore.com/aia-documents/a133-2009-standard-form-of-agreement-between-owner-and-construction-manager.html Brian E. Trimble, CDT Senior Member Username: brian_e_trimble_cdt Post Number: 74 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 05:57 pm:    Thanks everyone. I thought this was a simple straightforward list. Ha! I was wrong. Most documents list them as Ron mentioned above and that's what I'm going with. I was trying to vote on an ASTM ballot and this item piqued my interest. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 724 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 05:58 pm:    The SD/DD/CD/BN/CA five phases Ron listed are still the architect's basic services, according to both AIA and CSI. "The definitions may vary..." acording to project delivery method. PDPG is silent on "Preconstruction Phase" but does include "Preconstruction" in the traditional usage - Preconstruction Meeting, preconstruction activities, preconstruction submittals, etc. Analogous to what Liz mentioned, under Design-Build General Condition forms, PDPG lists "AGC ConsensusDOCS Document 500, Agreement and General Conditions Between Design-Builder and Construction Manager (Guaranteed Maximum Price with Option for Preconstruction Services)" and "AGC ConsensusDOCS Document 510, Agreement and General Conditions Between Design-Builder and Construction Manager (Cost of Work with Option for Preconstruction Services)" I didn't check the other Practice Guides. CCAPG would be the logical one that might expand on it. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Allegion PLC (formerly Ingersoll Rand) St. Louis, MO George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 725 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 06:17 pm:    CAPG uses "preconstruction phase" just once, in this context, in the summary chapter: Preconstruction activities typically begin when the contractor has received a signed agreement and a notice to proceed, and end with completion of mobilization at the site. The contractor’s working relationships with subcontractors and suppliers are dependent on negotiations during the PRECONSTRUCTION PHASE and the execution of subcontractor agreements and purchase orders. Early preconstruction activities include estimating pass-off, awarding subcontracts, buyout,...." (etc. etc...) and the CAPS are mine. In the text, there are no initial capitals to the phrase, indicating it is not a defined term in the book. CSPG doesn't mention it. Imagine my surprise to find an article in the (relatively) new PRPG titled: "12.7.1 Preconstruction Phase". It's under a discussion of the Contractor Team, and refers to the activities mentioned above... So much for looking in the logical places, huh? George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Allegion PLC (formerly Ingersoll Rand) St. Louis, MO Alan Mays, AIA Senior Member Username: amays Post Number: 169 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 06:24 pm:    Brian, what does your contract say? The simple answer is that looking at my 2007 AIA Guide to the Contract Documents book, it says that was not changed from the 1997 version of the B141. The A201 I do not think changed either since these documents are coordinated. Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 244 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 07:39 pm:    I'm wondering if the change in the CDT Domains has created this confusion. The recent CDT BoKA changed the Domains for the CDT Exam to: Fundamentals, Project Concept and Delivery, Design Process, Construction Documents, Procurement, Preconstruction, Construction, and Lifecycle Activities. In teaching it this year, it actually made more sense. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 739 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 11:51 pm:    As noted, the definition will depend on whose documents you're using If pre-construction refers to contractor activities, they would take place after, and not include, bidding or negotiation, which would fit with the phases Margaret lists. Still, it's an unfortunate breakdown if you're looking at the big picture, as there is a logical point at which activities turn from pre-construction to construction. The A133 description of pre-construction activities includes meeting with the architect and owner to discuss procedures, scheduling, selection of materials, building systems, and equipment, and submitting a bid (the guaranteed maximum price). That agrees with a big-picture division of work in which bidding is part of pre-construction activities. It also seems to work with the CDT "Domains", which apparently do not include design process and procurement in preconstruction. Even then, it may not be entirely clear. In its Owner's Guide to Project Delivery Methods, CMAA states, "In a Design-Bid-Build delivery, in addition to overall management expertise, the CM must also provide construction expertise and advice to the project team during all pre-construction phases since the contractor will not be involved on the project until the construction phase." This suggests the big-picture interpretation. In its Construction Management Manual of Practice, CMAA refers but once to pre-construction: "There are three (3) basic categories of meetings involved in the construction phases: pre-construction, progress, and special meetings." It does not call pre-construction a phase, but a category of meeting. Oddly, though CMAA's Glossary refers to design phase, construction phase, procurement phase, post construction phase, conceptual phase, and schematic phase, it does not refer to pre-construction phase, and it defines only Post-Construction Phase and Pre-Design Phase. Larry Whitlock (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 - 02:50 pm:    AIA® Document D200™ – Project Checklist ©1995 indicates that there are 8 phases of service: 1. PRE-DESIGN, with sub-phases: Project Feasibility, Project Presentation, Pre-Contract, Project Administration, and Project Programming 2. SITE ANALYSIS, with sub-phases: Site Evaluation, Environmental Impact Report, and Permits 3. SCHEMATIC DESIGN 4. DESIGN DEVELOPMENT 5. CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS 6. BIDDING OR NEGOTIATION (MasterFormat's Procurement and Contracting) 7. CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION; and 8. POST-CONSTRUCTION SERVICES (LITIGATION is not a phase, even though many architects seem to consider it to be the last phase of a project.) Alan Mays, AIA Senior Member Username: amays Post Number: 193 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 - 04:35 pm:    Yes Larry, They forgot that phase along with the Bankruptcy phase.