4specs.com    4specs.com Home Page

Delegated Design issues Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

4specs Discussion Forum » Construction Contract Administration Discussions » Delegated Design issues « Previous Next »

Author Message
Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: presbspec

Post Number: 187
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 03:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

A Chapter member has approached me with the following question:
Does CSI have a standard definition of the rules and responsibilities of the DOR and the delegated designer of a delegated design?
I don't know off the top of my head and my reference materials are still scattered from the temporary office move. Can anyone answer his question?
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey

Post Number: 331
Registered: 01-2008


Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 04:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Margret,

Can't speak for CSI, but AIA has statements on this subject. I think this has been the topic of previous threads on 4specs.com
George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: geverding

Post Number: 526
Registered: 11-2004


Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 05:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I had searched the PRM a year or two ago to answer a similar question from a colleague, and if I recall correctly, the references there are few and scattered. All mention of delegated design in the PRM ties it to the performance method of specifying. I could not find a discussion of the rules and responsibilities of delegated design, per se, beyond what was said about performance specs.
George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA
Cannon Design - St. Louis, MO
Robert W. Johnson
Senior Member
Username: robert_w_johnson

Post Number: 68
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 06:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

AIA A201-07, 3.12.10.
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT
Senior Member
Username: rliebing

Post Number: 1187
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 07:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

The authority in the AIA A201 is short on methodology or setting duties and repsonsibilities. It is basically "enabling authority" that allows and supports the proper transfer of design responsibilities to others by the architect.

My impression is that without any distinct parameters the results of such delegated design work are best received and filed, perhaps as informational [or 'For the record"] submittals. At least here there is continuity in who did what, how and based on what.
John J. Frisco III, AIA, NCARB
Member
Username: frisco

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 09:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Margaret,
If I'm understanding your question correctly, aside from the A201 section indicated by Bob Johnson, you will also want to verify the scope, intent, and appropriate methods with all the authorities having jurisdiction for the given project that your inquirer is involved with. The IBC, and I'm assuming they're under the IBC, has specific language, albeit brief, in Chapter 106 about deferred submittals (submittals in this case being documents issued to the appropriate authorities) for review, permit, record. Individual states may also have particular licensing requirements or indications of responsible control that come into play.

If it's actual, and I hate to use the word in such a broad fashion, DESIGN or design process that's at stake here, it may just come down to an appropriately written contractual agreement with substantial coordination language between parties over who has control and authority over what portions of the design work in terms of pure aesthetics.

I hope that helps.
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre

Post Number: 951
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 01:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

CSI does not have a standard definition for delegated design -- its really a contractual matter, and not a "documents" matter. CSI tends to matters regarding contract documents preparation and administration -- not the actual construction contract itself. (that's probably the easiest way to cite the distinction).
It has been my experience that many jurisdictions (and Peter Jordan can talk to this) do not allow delegated design for certain portions of the building, such as roof and exterior envelope, so you have to be rather clever about how this actually occurs. And the reality is that many more things are done in this way than we really admit to -- for example, we definitely don't do the actual design of the school casework and determine what fasteners and components are part of the case bodies. However, we just treat that as a "standard product" and go from there.
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey

Post Number: 332
Registered: 01-2008


Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 01:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

AIA A201 covers this adequately.

Delegated design occurs regularly throughout projects in my region as well is other regions.
-sprinkler systems
-axial and windload bearing cold formed metal framing
-curtain wall
-window wall
-premanufactured drop in steel stairs
-guardrails (structural design, not aesthetics)
-through-penetration firestopping
-fire alarm, detection, and monitoring
-spas and swimming pools
-fountains
-monumental fireplaces

Is also goes under the name of bidder design.

I include a Division 01 section covering delegated design submittals. The intent of Delegated Design Submittals is to account for professional engineering responsibility for design, review and acceptance of components of Work forming a part of permanent Work in accordance with Building Code, and that has been assigned to a design entity other than Architect including, but not limited to, the following:
1. Design requiring structural analysis of load bearing components and connections.
2. Design requiring compliance with fire safety regulations.
3. Design requiring compliance with life or health safety regulations.

This section provides standard forms for submittal of Letter of Commitment and Letter of Compliance required complying with requirements of Building Code and design delegated to a professional Engineer within technical specification sections.

Delegated Design Submittals are not required for components of Work requiring engineering for temporary Work (i.e.: crane hoisting, engineered lifts, false Work, shoring, concrete formwork) that would normally form a part of Contractor or Construction Managerís scope of Work.

The requirements of this section do not diminish responsibilities of Architectís role as Registered Professional of Record; submittals will be used by Architect to establish that Work is substantially performed in accordance with Building Code.

Companion sections include DELEGATED DESIGN REQUIREMENTS and a DELEGATED DESIGN SUMMARY SHEET
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI
Senior Member
Username: mark_gilligan

Post Number: 276
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 04:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Recommend that you work closely with your design consultants dealing with systems related to delegated design systems. Both because they are aware of local practices and because very likely they will have provisions addressing this issue in their specification sections of on their drawings.

Consider not addressing issues in the Division 1 sections that are already well addressed in the technical specifications. For example the design requirements.

Always require that the delegated design item be signed by an appropriately licensed design profession licensed in the state where the project will be constructed. Failure to do this could result in the Architect or one of the consultants accepting legal liability for the design.

In some instances the local agency will not allow delegated design which may lead to hiring a specialty contractor to produce design documents that can be inserted into the permit documents.
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza

Post Number: 434
Registered: 12-2002


Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Standard conditions that address the contractor's insurance requirements may need revising to include requirements for professional E&O insurance covering the contractor's delegated design activities. Otherwise when a problem does occur, the closest E&O insurance policy will be the AE's, whether or not the design work was "delegated."
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Just to add more confusion to this thread, it is MasterSpec that I believe came up with the term "Delegated Design" and this is a term that is used throughout MasterSpec specification sections. When doing some independent research on the topic some time ago, I came across a recommendation from the AIA that this term NOT be used. I cannot place my hands on the document from AIA that recommended against this, but it is out there. I do not know if the AIA has changed their position, but I note that MasterSpec doesn't seem at all influenced.
Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP
Senior Member
Username: redseca2

Post Number: 232
Registered: 12-2006


Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

For years, "delegated design" as referred to here and in MasterSpec was called "deferred approval" when submitting hospital designs for approval with the California state department that reviews plans and issues permits for hospital in California.

This applies whenever a competitive specification meant the design cannot be competely resolved until a vendor is selected, and is typical for items like elevators, pneumatic tube and curtain wall.
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre

Post Number: 952
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 02:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

what the portion of the work is called ("Delegated Design" or other) is rather immaterial. (its like the "do we really approve shop drawings or do we just wave our wands over them). In addition to the items listed by Steve and Wayne, I would say that "delegated design" applies to any item that has to take structural loading of some sort, and must be attached to structure to make it work properly. The design of the sections, the attachments, and the span of the items is entirely dependent on the manufacturer and their engineering components, and the architect's consultants review for coordination with attachments only. Newer items that meet these criteria can include wind-powered energy; solar panels, and a whole raft of shading devices. However, the approval of the AHJ still has to be part of the process, and that approval must be sought by the party doing the engineering of the "delegated" portion.
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI
Senior Member
Username: mark_gilligan

Post Number: 279
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 03:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

While delegated design usually involves structurel issues delegated design can also occur when any part of the design needed to be checked for code compliance is not completed by the design team prior to issuance of the building permit.

While the party performing the delegated design should have the responsibility for satisfying the jurisdictions concerns, ultimately the AHJ will look to the applicant for the premit to resolve any issues.
Michael Chusid
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid

Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2003


Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 07:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

SectionFormat (2008 ed) includes "Delegated Design Submittals" in Part One.
Michael Chusid, www.chusid.com

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Password:
E-mail:
Options: Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration