Substitution Requests going to owner?

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Author Message David G. Axt, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 2009 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2023 - 12:55 pm:    I had a product representative email me and ask if substitution requests should go to the architect or owner. I told him absolutely the substitution requests should go to the architect. The architect is responsible and liable for the design of the building. In some instances the architect may send the request to engineers, consultants, or the owner for their input. The product representative told me that he has a few projects where the owner wants the requests sent to them. I will dig further on this issue. The only thing I can think of is the owner has a web-based management system that they want to track everything. Have you come across an instance where the owner wants the substitution requests routed to them? David G. Axt, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, CDT, AIA, LEED Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 544 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2023 - 01:08 pm:    I have had experience with the Owner deciding substitutions. When the Owner doesn't involve the AE team things can get messy. If the Owner listens to the AE team (and vice versa) projects run smoother. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1560 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2023 - 01:58 pm:    I've always understood that the AOR can recommend action on substitutions but that the Owner has the final decision. Considering the AOR has the same liability for substitutions as they have for products specified in the CD's I'd say involvement is critical. Besides, most Contracts are written requiring all communication to go through the AOR. Bypassing the AOR could diminish the Owner's rights against the AOR in the event the substitution fails. Having said all that, shouldn't the vendor be told that all of their communications have to go through the Contractor? Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI Emeritus, AIA Emeritus / RETIRED Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 545 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2023 - 02:15 pm:    Ken; You are, of course, correct: all communications, including substitutions, should go through the Contractor. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 753 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2023 - 03:38 pm:    In terms of good relationship building, those vendor conversations should start with the architect. There are more than one BPM out there who go to market directly to facility owners, bypassing the architect. This probably costs them more projects than it wins. Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA SpecGuy Specifications Consultants www.SpecGuy.com phil@specguy.com Nathan Woods, RA, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 912 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2023 - 03:43 pm:    The definitive answer on this is that GC processes the Substitution request, forwards it to the Architect, who then forwards it to the Owner (with an additional services request if review is approved). The Owner should determine if they wish the Architect to consider the substitution or not. Once that is determined (and the additional service request is approved), then and only then does the architect commence a substitution review. Example: Contract Docs specify Carrier as the HVAC for the air handling units. Substitution Request comes in to use Trane, offering a substantial credit to the Owner. However, the Owner, having multiple facilities and a national contract with Carrier, declines the Substitution Request because of their national interests, so the Architect returns the Substitution Request as rejected, without having to perform a review. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1183 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2023 - 11:59 am:    It also depends when the the whole process the substitution request is made; before execution of the Contract for Construction or after. A substitution request that is made before execution of the Contract will have to be incorporated into the Procurement Documents appropriately which is the responsibility of the design professional. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP