Stained Glass in an overhead application

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Author Message Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 534 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 12:30 pm:    I have a client that wants to use a giant stain glass type window overhead. The overall diameter is 6 feet, but it is comprised of 100 or so smaller pieces in a stainless steel frame (2-8 inches) Is there a size minimum for using overhead glass that is not laminated? Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1211 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 12:45 pm:    There is no size, but you will have to provide screening below the skylight to protect people below from falling glass. Can a layer of clear laminated glass be installed just below the stained glass? Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Alan Mays, AIA Senior Member Username: amays Post Number: 182 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:02 pm:    Ron is correct. Many years ago I worked on a project in Charlotte, NC that put a stained glass ceiling in the main elevator lobby. We had to use a laminate glass to cover the stained glass. We also had to put in a catwalk system above the stained glass ceiling to allow maintenance of the lighting. If it is back lit or there is a skylight, be aware that they do need access to maintain it. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 535 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:16 pm:    Well, this is pretty much what I thought, but told the architect I would check. The part I didn't mention is that this stained glass feature is above a hot tob, in a spa and isn't actually a skylight, but has a plenum space above with lighting. They have no idea how they will handle maintenance. I don't think they can add a layer of laminated glass. Yes, I know they are opening a hot bed of moisture condensation issues as well. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1212 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:23 pm:    "Yes, I know they are opening a hot bed of moisture condensation issues as well." Probably all the more reason to add the laminated glass. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 536 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:24 pm:    Also, I am assuming it doesn't matter if each individual piece is laminate- there needs to be some overall "catch" mechanism whether it is a screen or a large piece of laminated glass? Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1213 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:32 pm:    Correct. In the safety glazing section of the IBC, there are exceptions for "decorative glazing"--unfortunately, there are no similar exceptions when it comes to skylights. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Alan Mays, AIA Senior Member Username: amays Post Number: 183 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:36 pm:    Robin, we were not allowed to do it that way. We had a full sheet of laminate glazing (many panels since this was an extremely large stained glass ceiling) that served as the catch for stained glass. Be aware that this ceiling was 28 feet above the finished floor so details were less relevant. Since you are over a hot tub, they are much closer. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 537 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:37 pm:    Thanks everyone. I am going to have one pissed off interior designer to deal with... Alan Mays, AIA Senior Member Username: amays Post Number: 184 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:41 pm:    That interior designer should have done their research before thinking of it as an option or accept that there is some flexibility in the design. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 538 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:46 pm:    Agreed, but this particular one is a little challenging to work with :-). Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1214 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:49 pm:    "I am going to have one pissed off interior designer to deal with..." That's half the fun of being a specifier--pissing off interior designers. :-P Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 740 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:51 pm:    And... ...stainless steel might not be the best material if there is chlorine involved with the hot tub. Pool designers generally shy away from SS in chlorine rich environments. If we couldn't break interior designers' hearts, being a specifier would be much less fun. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Allegion PLC (formerly Ingersoll Rand) St. Louis, MO Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 539 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 12:57 pm:    This ceiling element is a little different from how I first understood it - it is stainless steel sheet with laser cut outs and the glass sits on top of it and the glass has bubble shapes that sit in the metal frame. I would post a picture of the sample if I could! According to the manufacturer, it is similar to a glass ceiling art feature or chandelier and therefore ok. Which makes me think...how did the Chihuly glass ceiling feature get by in the Bellagio? Under the same premise? Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 243 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 03:44 pm:    Robin, I was thinking that your designer was probably inspired by standing under the Chihuly flowers, thinking of a long hot bath and a fancy trash receptacle. Maybe the regular rules don't apply for certain types of art installations? - Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 217 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 04:01 pm:    If the Owner has enough money or clout, then the “Authority having Jurisdiction” all too often finds a way to accept “non-standard” design and construction. Or there are solutions that are not apparent when standing on the floor and craning your neck looking up. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 540 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2014 - 04:06 pm:    At 70 feet by 30 feet by 12 feet, "Fiori di Como" is the largest glass sculpture ever made. Walking into the lobby of the Bellagio and seeing the Chihuly sculpture suspended from the ceiling is truly an awe-inspiring experience. Because "Fiori di Como" is so large, pictures don't really prepare you for its size or impact. Ellis: I suspect it is more of the former than the latter "All together, there are 2,000 individual blown-glass flowers that make up the sculpture. The weight of "Fiori di Como" is also staggering. The glass flowers weigh 40,000 pounds, and the steel structure holding it all in place weighs another 10,000 pounds." Brett Scarfino (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 - 05:53 pm:    316 stainless steel is the recommended alloy for marine/chlorine rich environments. General purpose 304 stainless would not be (the Arch would not look so pretty if it were coastal). You might look at materials used to glaze the stained glass to the stainless steel frame...and make sure they are also compatible with a potential chlorine rich environment. Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 93 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2014 - 08:18 pm:    There are stainless alloys that are more resistant to corrosion than 316--used, for example, near salt water. IIRC, in a harsh environment, even 316 can show surface rust requiring periodic cleaning, but I can't remember the designations of the more salt or chlorine-resistant alloys. I learned this from a good article on them a few years ago in the Construction Specifier. Brett Scarfino (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2014 - 03:44 pm:    I agree. 317 and "duplex" alloys, as I understand it, are very common in offshore oil platforms. Add'l Molybdenum content. Domestic/architectural use, I've only one time seen a duplex alloy considered (exotic lobby curtain wall in Manhattan). Ultimately, I believe 316L was used since it was readily available and a familiar alloy to the local fabricator. Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 94 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2014 - 04:52 pm:    I think the best alloys mentioned in the article had an alphanumeric designation outside the 31x series, although 317 could have been one of them. "Duplex" sounds familiar, though. Very specialized, for when you really, really don't want to see any rust. And correspondingly dear... Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 95 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2014 - 05:03 pm:    "Duplex 2205 provides nearly double the corrosion resistance typical in other austenitic stainless steels" (from the Best Stainless website). That's one of the ones I remember reading about, perhaps the best one. I remember making a note to use it if I were doing a polished ss sculpture for a seaside location...