Porcelain Tile on Exterior TCNA Method

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1042 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 11:53 am:    I don't have access to the TCNA manual at the moment, can one of my fellow spec writers advise on an Installation method for Porcelain Tile applied to an exterior CBS wall with Epoxy based products? Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 626 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 12:12 pm:    WOOD OR METAL STUDS, CEMENT BACKER BOARD,CERAMIC TILE = W244E-13 Jerome, This installation number specifies ceramic tile (including precelain) material to ANSI A137.1. When a waterproof membrane is used, specify latex-portland cement mortar - ANSI A118.4 or better. Or better may mean epoxy Cementitious backer board - ANSI A118.9 or ASTM C1325 (Type A). Cementitious grout - ANSI A118.6 or better. Or better may mean epoxy. Wayne Dale Roberts CSI, CCPR, CTC, LEED Green Associate Senior Member Username: dale_roberts_csi Post Number: 113 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 02:54 pm:    Hi Jerome, Is there a specific reason you want to use epoxy mortar (adhesive) for this installation? If the back of the tile or stone has an epoxy or resin coating then I would recommend it. But it will cost you more for this installation. There are three specific exterior details (depending on Substrate) all list a cementitious bond coat (mortar). With the proper detailing and flashing you can use an interior detail on the exterior. You can also just substitute Epoxy Bonding mortar for the cementious bond coat. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1043 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 02:57 pm:    Dale, Building Owner has specifically requested it...I will check into it further and advise back. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1044 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 05:05 pm:    Dale, this is the comment from the building owner: •The owner would like to adhere the exterior wall tile to the walls with epoxy setting materials to avoid the leaching of lime. I don't know if leaching of lime is a valid concern - the project is in Miami. The substrate is cement board over concrete block walls. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 670 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 07:28 pm:    If I remember correctly both Laticrete and Mapae have exterior tile systems for which they will offer what appear to be very good warrantees. You should check with your local rep for more information. With metal studs, you want to watch the deflection criteria; look for L/600 minimum. If there is some deflection, either the tile will pop off or the system will crack. Since you are in Florida, I can assume that you are looking at a minimum of 30 psf in the field of the wall for one- to two-story buildings, more at the edges and corners. This is for 110 mph winds. You can expect more extreme pressures at higher wind loads. Dale Roberts CSI, CCPR, CTC, LEED Green Associate Senior Member Username: dale_roberts_csi Post Number: 114 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 10:42 pm:    If he is concerned about lime (I assume he really means efflorescence) than a liquid applied waterproof membrane (ANSI A 118.10) would be most appropriate for this installation. Yes the epoxy mortar would also work, but the expense of extra labor cost and the difficulty of getting an acceptable installation on a vertical surface, especially on a building with more than two stories would not be worth it. You would be better off with the liquid applied membrane (Also Custom Building products RedGard, as well as Mapei and Laticrete all have systems available) W 244E – 13 is the appropriate TCNA method. You want to include the optional Waterproof membrane ANSI A 118.10 (CBP RedGard) I can also give you or equals if needed a cement mortar ANSI A118.15 Non sag wall mortar (CBP ProLite) and a stain resistant grout ANSI A118.7 (CBP Prism). ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 700 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 10:58 pm:    I usually limit my systems to Laticrete, Mapei and Custom Building Products. Custom has a great cross-reference chart of equivalent products if you check with your rep. I've had some problems with epoxy at exterior applications, especially over studs. Apparently the combination of heat conducting to the epoxy adhesive while at the same time causing the assembly to deflect just does not tend to work as well as a good flexible mortar. Keep in mind that epoxy tends to be less forgiving during installation. If epoxy is being forced on you, please consider increasing the number of soft joints in the system.