Ice and water shield for the Bahamas

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Author Message Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 239 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 04:56 pm:    One of my clients is working on a private project for himself and has asked my advice regarding some material he wants for his cottage. His question is below, can anyone give me a hand to advise him on this? "I am building a cottage (in the Bahamas) and I have specified Grace Ice and Water Shield within the roof assembly. My contractor says that Grace is not available, and that Tough Guard is available and is a comparable product. “Jiffy?” is another product he named as available. Do you have knowledge of these products and an opinion about them?" Thanks Ya'll, See you in Nashville. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 612 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 06:48 pm:    Jiffy Seal is manufactured by the Protecto Wrap Company. I’ve had some experience with them in CA, Nothing negative as long as you specify the proper product. Tough-Guard is manufactured by BlueLinx. I don’t have any experience with their products, but it does look similar to the Grace product. Unfortunately I won't be in Nashville. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 473 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 08:27 pm:    For self-adhered underlayments for use under metal roofing, we typically specify a butyl-based product such as Grace Ultra or Protecto Jiffy Seal Ice & Water Guard HT, rather than asphalt-based, because of its resistance to the high temperatures under metal roofing. With the temperatures in the Caribbean area, I'd lean toward the butyl-based product regardless of the roofing material your client will be using. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 617 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 07:38 am:    I second Dave's suggestion regarding "high temperature" products. The solar radiation is greater at these latitudes and can significantly increase the temperature of the roofing material. Like Richard and Dave, I am familiar with the Jiffy Seal product, but not the other. Although I don't have the information in front of me, I believe MasterSpec lists 6 or 7 different products that meet the HT specification. I would not be surprised at all if only 2 or 3 of these products were available in this location. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 601 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 09:14 am:    I concur with the butyl-based testimony. Be careful as there are some supposed 'high-temperature' asphalt-based products that don't compare with the butyl-based products. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 613 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 11:35 am:    It has also been recommended to me to use a red rosin slip sheet between the membrane and the metal roofing to prevent the membrane from sticking to the metal. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 618 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 12:14 pm:    Berridge has been actively discouraging this practice for several years. They believe that the slip sheet holds water and promotes metal deterioration. If the roof is metal, you probably will be using a clip system that holds the roof just above the surface of the substrate so having the metal sticking to the substrate should not be an issue. I would look into "local practice." ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 602 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 12:44 pm:    Agreed, though Berridge has some great options that not everyone offers. Still, if a separator is needed you may want to consider other alternatives. You also may need to consider the relationship between location of insulation and location of vapor retarder. If you need to place insulation between underside of roof and top of membrane, two important considerations are clip design and drainage of moisture from face of membrane. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 992 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 09:02 am:    Remember many Caribbean countries required roof assemblies to have current Miami- Dade County NOA's (Notice of Acceptance) to meet or exceed the high velocity wind loads. Jiffy Seal does not. You can research this yourself by going to the Miami Dade County Product Approval website: http://www.miamidade.gov/building/pc-search_app.asp I have written specifications for many projects in the Caribbean, but oddly not in the Bahamas. So this is all the info I can offer at the moment. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 993 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 09:07 am:    These are the NOA's for Grace products: http://www.miamidade.gov/building/pc-result_app.asp?fldNOA=&Classification=1%2CHigh+velocity+hurricane+zone%2C1&AdvancedSearch=Go&applicantlist=100211&categorylist=0&subcategorylist=0&materiallist=0&impactlist=0&fldMDPP=0.00&fldMDPN=0.00 I doubt very much Grace's Ice and Water Shield is not available, sounds like the contractor is scamming your client. Perhaps his mark-up on Ice and Water Shield is not as high as he wants. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 619 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 09:47 am:    Oddly enough (because I often hear the Bahamas described as Caribbean islands, I don't think of them being as such. This doesn't have any bearing on the dicusssion, but I usually think of the Caribbean Sea being located south of Cuba and Haiti. The Bahamas are definitely north; can anyone explain this to me? Oh, and I agree with Jerry. The product may not be available to him (he doesn't get a markup or he has run out his credit with the distributor). Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1378 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 04:22 pm:    Well, Peter -- your choices would be "barrier islands " which is clearly not true, North Atlantic Islands (which is technically true, but sounds weird) but since the Bahamas are sort of adjacent to Florida, Caribbean doesn't seem like much of a stretch. the product reps probably cover all of them. Bermuda, on the other hand.... George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 686 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 05:11 pm:    ...or "archipelago", a word which defines them but doesn't locate them. Atlantic archipelago off the coast of North America? Cumbersome... See what happens when you get specifiers thinking about correct terminology. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 994 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 05:48 pm:    A local waterproofing buddy has advised that The Bahamas will let you do anything you want, so forget what I said, no NOA is required. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 608 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 06:06 pm:    It is funny and interesting how these discussions veer off from the original question or help request and get sidetracked in blah, blah, blah land.