ADA 404.2.10 vs. frameless glass doors

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Author Message Scott Mize Senior Member Username: scott_mize_ccs_csi Post Number: 74 Registered: 02-2009 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 10:25 am:    The referenced part of the ADA standards covers the "smooth surface to 10 inches above the floor" rule for doors in an "accessible route." There are exceptions to the rule for sliding doors, glass doors with top and bottom rails but without stiles and retro-fitted kickplates. It doesn't seem to address frameless glass doors with patch fittings or button attachments for hinges, pivots, hardware, etc. The glass door manufacturer literature I've looked at yesterday and today doesn't address this requirement. Have any of you encountered this issue, and what did you learn? ------- Text of 402.2.10 from "2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design" follows: "404.2.10 Door and Gate Surfaces: Swinging door and gate surfaces within 10 inches (255 mm) of the finish floor or ground measured vertically shall have a smooth surface on the push side extending the full width of the door or gate. Parts creating horizontal or vertical joints in these surfaces shall be within 1/16 inch (1.6 mm) of the same plane as the other. Cavities created by added kick plates shall be capped EXCEPTIONS: 1. Sliding doors shall not be required to comply with 404.2.10. 2. Tempered glass doors without stiles and having a bottom rail or shoe with the top leading edge tapered at 60 degrees minimum from the horizontal shall not be required to meet the 10 inch (255 mm) bottom smooth surface height requirement 3. Doors and gates that do not extend to within 10 inches (255 mm) of the finish floor or ground shall not be required to comply with 404.2.10. 4. Existing doors and gates without smooth surfaces within 10 inches (255 mm) of the finish floor or ground shall not be required to provide smooth surfaces complying with 404.2.10 provided that if added kick plates are installed, cavities created by such kick plates are capped. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 679 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 11:00 am:    From http://idighardware.com/2012/03/decoded-flush-bottom-rails/ "Tempered glass doors with no vertical stiles and a tapered bottom rail do not have to meet the requirement for a 10” bottom rail, although they are still subject to the prohibition on projections." I emailed you the article. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO Scott Mize Senior Member Username: scott_mize_ccs_csi Post Number: 75 Registered: 02-2009 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 11:19 am:    Thanks, George. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 883 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 09:05 pm:    George, There seems to be no specific description on what constitutes a bottom shoe that is tapered at 60 degrees minimum. How thick, what does it look like (examples)? And, I was looking at photo images of the new Apple Store in Stanford and their all glass doors (patch corners for center hung closers, no bottom rail. BUT, following the link below and note that they have a double thickness of glass for a 'bottom rail'. How does that read with the requirements, and this is definitely an accessible route since its the store's main entry... http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/07/apples-stanford-2-retail-site-opens-to-crowds-and-lines Scroll down the article and you will see a crowd of people at the open doors and then look closely at the double thickness of glass 'bottom rail'. Also note the way they handled the requirement for the alert about the door being required to remain unlocked while the facility is occupied etched in the glass of this 'bottom rail'. William William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 684 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 10:07 pm:    It looks to me like they have the second thickness of glass notched around the patch fitting so that the surface of the glass is in-line with the surface of the patch fitting. True, it's not a bottom rail in the traditional sense, but it is smooth and (presumably) 10" tall This would seem to comply with the original requirement for the 10" smooth surface bottom rail in 404.2.10, which does not define materials – glass is as good as any other material. That would mean that the tempered glass exception 2 wouldn't be necessary, or required, since they met the original intent of 404.2.10. It’s a clever solution – especially the etching. On first reading it seemed cheating that the warning would be so low, but practically speaking when you lock the door, you are locking a drop bolt into the sill – you can see the strikes in the photo – so the warning is right in your face. Regarding the detail of what the exception looks like, I wonder if the new ADA shows it? In my off line email conversation with Scott, I mentioned Blumcraft (C. R. Laurence). I think they have it pretty well figured out and have a drawing of their compliant bottom rail profile. Thanks for sharing this installation with us. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 884 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 10:17 pm:    Thanks, I figured it might be a work-around. I came across this totally by chance, happened to see an article about the Stanford store being the first of the new designs and just wanted to see what it looked like. Then I saw the glass doors and recalled this discussion - and focused in on the (for want of a better description) "glass kick plate". William William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX