| Author |
Message |
Paul Gerber
Senior Member
Username: paulgerber
Post Number: 143
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 05:51 pm: |    |
I am working on a Project that I am specifying a Tactile Warning Surfacing on. It is a little renovation to the main entrance and lobby of a hockey arena that is owned by a local city.
Part of the scope is the replacement of the main exterior CIP concrete stairs and BFA ramp. A contributing factor to this replacement is no doubt due to the excessive amounts of salt used by facilities staff to ensure there are no issues with winter-time slips on ice and snow.
Part of the city's design standards include tactile warning surfacing at the top landing of the stairs. This is currently not a Barrier-Free Access requirement of the Code, so I do not have any experience with these systems. I have been researching the various systems available and there seems to be 2 or 3 variations of a common ADA-approved design for the truncated dome tiles. The variations I have found are a) cast-in-place b) surface-mounted or c) removable/replaceable. The information gathered by the person doing the drawings from the manufacturers I had recommended was for a cast-in-place system. Since the Products are fairly new to the market (within that last 3 to 5 years in my estimation) I am wondering if one of the "removable" systems would make more sense since we are casting into a structural concrete landing slab. My concerns are with respect to expected longevity of these systems, resistance to "abuse" (someone beating it senseless with a shovel and or scraper) and the affects of the city's de-icing program (melt snow and ice, water gets in between tile & concrete, temperature drops overnight, water freezes, tile and/or concrete chips or cracks).
Anyone who has some experience with these types of Products, I would certainly appreciate hearing about your experiences and your thoughts with respect to permanent or removable systems.
Thanks in advance.
Ride it like you stole it!!! |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1632
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 06:18 pm: | |
I haven't had a lot of experience with these, but all have been bad for all the reasons you stated.
And, if the little truncated domes don't pop off with the freezing, the ice simply collects between, leaving a lovely slippery surface with bumps to scrape skin better.
I have seen a bit more success with the mat style that can be picked up. But when the ADA first came out, this requirement was removed for all these reasons. This works fine where there is no snow, ice, freezing temps, etc., but not above the snow line (according to Peter, I10) |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 1346
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 07:32 pm: | |
Paul:
has there been any discussion of having heat tape put down under the paving? I've done this in some locations and it has successfully kept the ice and snow away from those little "truncated domes". they don't have to get really warm... just warm enough to not freeze. and of course, the maintenance staff has to find products to use that aren't as corrosive. |
Justatim
Senior Member
Username: justatim
Post Number: 51
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 07:59 am: | |
This bumpy surface is called "detectable warnings" in the ADA Standards, whereas "tactile" is used by ADA for symbols on Braille signage.
MasterSpec's Section 321726, Tactile Warning Surfacing, includes surface-applied and -embedded detectable warning products.
MasterSpec's Section 321313, Concrete Paving, includes integrally STAMPED detectable warnings. |
Paul Sweet (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 12:40 pm: | |
Truncated dome detectable warnings are intended to warn pedestrians they are about to step off a transit platform or into a traffic area. Overuse in other places could make them less effective. I'd check with the city whether they allow other textures for tactile warning surfaces. |
Paul Gerber
Senior Member
Username: paulgerber
Post Number: 144
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 02:50 pm: | |
Thanks all for your comments back. It's nice to know there are always answers or opinions available from my colleagues here!
Lynn, yes they seem much better suited to southern climates to me as well, however I received an e-mail response from Mr. Yancey saying they can even cause split-inducing slips in the PNW!
Anne, I will keep heat tape (?) or at least heat-trace cabling in mind in the future. The Project scope went through some "value engineering" (i.e. scale it back to BARE bones by the Owner) so I'm not sure it's in the budget for this one!
Tim, MasterFormat calls it tactile. I'm not sure it really makes that much of a difference as long as it's used consistently in the Contract Documents. And what's MasterSpec eh? We don't buy that up here in the land of igloos! All the wrong standards and code compliance requirements!
If anyone has any other thoughts I would love to hear them.
Ride it like you stole it!!! |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 1499
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 27, 2013 - 11:55 am: | |
Outside of the issue of whether these should be put at the top of the stairs, I don't see any reason to be concerned about cast-iron as a material. Cast iron is already in wide use in areas receiving a lot of traffic. Tree grates, etc., but so are manhole covers, commonly in streets.
In my city neighborhood near Boston there are manhole covers in the sidewalk with raised pastilles, not unlike truncated domes on warning surfaces, that have been there since the 1880s. They still have another 100 years of wear to go. |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 507
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 12:07 pm: | |
Hire someone to stand there and tell people to "Watch your step, Eh?" |
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