theater lighting

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Author Message Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 620 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 11:37 am:    I've been asked to specify the supports for theater lighting. Any suggestions for specifications or manufacturers? Google didn't turn up much. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 572 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 11:44 am:    Consider metal channel framing systems from Unistrut or Powerstrut Coorporation or Flex-Strut, Inc. Metal Framing Manufactures Association (MFMA); Web Site http://metalframingmfg.org I specify these systems as support assemblies for a wide variety of end uses. Wayne ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 448 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 11:45 am:    Sheldon, did you check out all of these folks? http://www.4specs.com/s/11/11-6100.html http://www.4specs.com/s/26/26-5560.html http://www.4specs.com/s/26/26-0960.html I'll see if I can dig up some of my old theatre specs from a few years back. We did a lot of this sort of thing. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 621 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 11:50 am:    Unistrut was my first thought, but the designers want pipe. Just got this: 1-1/4" pipe, type of metal not important receptacle at center of each run for power and data Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 565 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 11:50 am:    I've done some work in that area as well. I'd say that Wayne is on the right course, but it depends on how much you need to support. You may want to put some structural engineering review in there also. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 622 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 11:59 am:    One of my first stops is always the 4specs directory! I was surprised at the number of sources. The problem, as is often the case, is "as soon as you can - today would be fine." Being to me an unknown subject, and not having time to study and understand it, I turned to my support group. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 566 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:03 pm:    I've done pipe too, the type of pipe is important. Minimum 1-1/2 inch N.P.S. (1.900 O.D.) Schedule 40 steel, ASTM A53, Type S, Grade B - 1-1/4 inch N.P.S. (1.660 O.D.) Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 537 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:48 pm:    How important the type of pipe is depends on how it is used. Schedule 40 ASTM A53 is commonly available so is often used. There may be situations where other types of pipe may be appropriate. The size of the pipe needs to be coordinated with the hardware that will to supported by these pipes. I have designed theaters where pipes were also used to support the stage and related lighting. Some of these pipes will also be used to support stage rigging. The project engineer needs to be involved with the design and specification of these elements. Gerard Sanchis Senior Member Username: gerard_sanchis Post Number: 89 Registered: 10-2009 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:57 pm:    Sheldon, If you send me your email address I'll email you a Section that you might use. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 573 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:59 pm:    Pipe is good in theory but it will not come with all the collateral parts required that Unistrut or comparibles offer. If pipe is mandatory, consider black or white plastics, schedule 40. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 539 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 01:17 pm:    Do not recommend plastic pipe for theater lighting supports. In a theater there always exists the likelihood that additional loads will be hung from these supports. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 567 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 01:20 pm:    I concur with Mark on both of his posts. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 449 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 02:01 pm:    Beware of using pipes unless they are part of an engineered systems. People will eventually use anything you put up there to support all kinds of things, sometimes even people. You really want an engineered system that is designed with a safety factor and whatever else is needed. Mainly you don't want the people telling you to just specify pipes to be sued when someone gets hurt. Plastic just won't work. As Mark and Wayne say, hardware and collateral parts come into play. When doing theatre, no matter what you design your suspension system to do, it won't meet some specific demand for some show down the road. They'll add on extensions and additional parts until they can get the light, microphone, speaker, pulley, explosive charge, or whatever in just the right place. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 568 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 02:27 pm:    Having dealt with "Theatre People", you can pretty much count on them doing something to/with the pipe grid that it wasn't originally designed for. I concur with Mark, Wayne, & Ken. Ken - "explosive charge" - good luck with that. Done wrong it would most likely bring the whole thing down! ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 450 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 03:06 pm:    One of my favorites was when we were asked to provide a safe launching platform for indoor pyrotechnics on a publicly funded project. Good luck finding 3 manufacturers for that one. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 623 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 06:21 pm:    Thanks to all for the advice. As noted, I am unfamiliar with this type of equipment, and expected it to be closer to rocket science. It probably is for larger projects, but this one is fairly simple. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1482 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 02:09 pm:    We always did these with black iron pipe, specified under miscellaneous metal section and laid out on the drawings. We gave total and point loads and required engineering, including attachment, by the contractor. Lighting is much heavier than you might expect, and other things can end up being attached as well. There were a few jobs with very minor, limited needs where we just did a complete design, but not very many. Lighting electrical was always figured out by a theater consultant because of the special nature, though final design was by the electrical engineer.