FiberTite

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Author Message Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1374 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 12:12 pm:    Any experience with, stories about, cost comparisons, etc. about Fibertite 36-mil membrane roofing? Any info or comments appreciated Robert E. Woodburn Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 01:07 pm:    You may already be aware of this, but in the recent Duro-Last thread, Ken Hercenberg posted this: "Typically I limit my PVC selection to Sarnafil with an alternative for FiberTite (KEE)." I believe there was at least one other mention (positive, I think) of FiberTite as well. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 440 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 01:32 pm:    Ralph, what's your application and method of installation? 36 mils is pretty thin, but KEE tends to be more stable than the other single ply membranes available like TPO. Unlike EPDM it can be heat welded so the seams are not a concern. Still, I like using a thicker membrane typically. What thickness and type of membrane were you considering? Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 569 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 02:40 pm:    Aside from the overall mil thickness, the mil thickness of the membrane over the reinforcing scrim is more important than total mil thickness. This according to a very recent seminar on EPDM, PVC/KEE and TPO membranes. The additional benefits of KEE are high strength, low temperature properties, resistant to chemicals and biodegration, no ozone attack, longer-term warranties, reduces dirt pick-up, superior application air quality (visible off-gassing during heat welding of PVC). Wayne Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1376 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 10:23 am:    Ken, our inquiry is based on a cold office call from FiberTite. We have no specific project in mind, and the the various factors they mentioned brought questions to mind. Thanks Wayne, for the insight and explanation. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1481 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 03:10 pm:    Although it never appeared on one of my projects, I was satisfied with its performance and reputation to bid it against Sarnafil. (This required some tricky specifyin' because they are not governed by the same standards.) I don't subscribe to the total mil thickness as pure qualifier - I prefer to consider total performance. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 444 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 04:41 pm:    Hi John. To a point, I agree with you. Performance is a major deciding factor. Still, I don't trust anyone, including myself, enough to be comfortable with looking at manufacturer's claim regarding things like puncture resistance. Considering 45 mils is about the thickness of a dime, anything less just seems like there's "no there there". Frankly, being an old BUR and mod bit guy, even the 60 mil sheets worry me. Add in the quirks inherent in EPDM and TPO and I just won't spec anything but a PVC or KEE that I'm familiar and comfortable with. Having said that, I would personally prefer the 36 mil FiberTite membrane to a 45 mil EPDM or TPO, but that's just my prejudice coming through. Paul Sweet (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 09:52 am:    I believe that FiberTite has a denser reinforcing mesh than most membranes, which is supposed to help with puncture resistance. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 452 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 03:32 pm:    I'm still waiting for roofing manufacturers to set up some real-life puncture tests, like dropping screwdrivers point down from 48 inches, the flashing kick test, or my all-time favorite, the toolbox toss. spiper (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 04:44 pm:    I know you are not an EPDM fan but Carlisle did a video of the fleeceback membrane to illustrate the puncture resistance. Not sure how to properly attach the link but here goes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJExGg0n3u4 ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 454 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 05:16 pm:    Well, that's enough for me to throw out Carlisle completely. If they don't even know how a BUR system works (not that I would use the 'system' they 'tested'). Let's see, a BUR with no asphalt (it's built-up, each component isn't designed to work as an independent membrane). For the mod bit, no one in their right mind would spec a single ply of mod bit (and yes, there are APP systems that fail regularly because some people do just that). Again, no mopping bitumen and only one ply? I don't think so. If a roofing company doesn't understand how roofing systems work, that's not a very good representation of themselves. Can you tell that I have a low tolerance for people who intentionally lie on tests? spiper (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 10:04 pm:    I apologize if I have offended, however I did go back a review the video. At no time did they state that they were comparing systems. They were comparing materials and as such they did not lie. I still believe the test does provide some, very limited, evidence that could lead to some level of concern. I completely agree that by testing only materials and not the total system the results are inconclusive at best and maybe even misleading but an "intentional lie". That is a very strong phrase that gets tossed about to liberaly in my opinion. You have a strong disdain for EPDM roofs and Carlisle as well apparently, fair enough, we can agree to disagree. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 456 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2013 - 10:14 pm:    I didn't mean to offend you either. Sorry, been working too many 16 hour days in a row I guess. Actually I've had good experiences with Carlisle, specifically, in the past. They are usually a very professional and honorable group of people who go out of their way to provide good customer service. They are always very responsive to service failures. So much more my disappointment when seeing them present a test such as this on YouTube. This, in fact, is an example of why a test used for one system is meaningless for another. As to my overall opinions, I've seen too many failed EPDM and TPO roofs. Not to say I haven't seen failed BUR and mod bits too, just not as many and the failures were a bit more understandable, usually just flashing problems, poor slope, or problems with lack of maintenance rather than holistic problems with the membranes themselves. Sorry for the tirade.