White on black EPDM roofing

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Author Message Kathleen Alberding Senior Member Username: kalberding Post Number: 16 Registered: 06-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 11:06 am:    We have a client who is demanding a white on black EPDM roofing membrane (no coatings). Most of the manufacturers we are aware of, (typically we don't spec these system because of durability issues), no longer manufacture this product. Is anyone aware of available products? John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1378 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 11:11 am:    I think you're right that no one makes it, or would recommend it if they do. If the client wants white, they ought to consider another type of sheet. I understand why they would not want a coating because of maintenance, so the best choice would be to go to PVC or TPO. Bruce Maine Senior Member Username: btmaine Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 11:55 am:    Firestone makes a white on black EPDM. It's their Rubberguard EcoWhite product. Bruce Maine CDT LEED AP ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 197 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 03:33 pm:    But does that mean that you have to use it? I'm not big on EPDM or TPO. PVC or KEE are pretty much it if I'm going single ply. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 501 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 10:43 pm:    I'm with Ken. Why would an owner hire an architect and then tell them to use an inferior roof membrane product that has never been available with manufacturer warranties with the same time period as black EPDM or the PVCs/KEEs? If the owner wants this roof, they should spec it themselves without your seal. Richard Howard, AIA CSI CCS LEED-AP Senior Member Username: rick_howard Post Number: 261 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 12:38 pm:    There are some roofing manufacturers that routinely go directly to building owners and convince them that they will get the roof of their dreams, and all they have to do is give the manufacturer's spec to their architect. Everybody wins. The architect gets liability for something he did not design, the owner pays a big premium for a roof that comes with perpetual inspection fees to keep the warranty in effect, and the manufacturer's rep gets a generous spiff. J. Peter Jordan (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 12:43 pm:    The solution (or at least an attempt at one) would be to write a letter to the Owner recommending against the Owner's product selection and notifying them that if the Owner insists that the product be specified, the architect will not assume responsibility for its failure to perform. Kathleen Alberding Senior Member Username: kalberding Post Number: 17 Registered: 06-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 05:51 pm:    FYI, the Architect is our client, we have informed them that this discussion should be had with the Owner. (We sent the Architect a letter requesting formal written direction, since it was against our recommendations.) The Owner is a transit authority who has Hypalon on other projects. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 502 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 10:21 pm:    Hypalon? Seriously? It makes good flashing in some instances, but a roof full? Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 503 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 10:33 pm:    Unfortunately, the ugly fact is that most architects don't know enough about roofing to specify a good roofing system. I see the wreckage they specify every day. It may be time for architects to turn to others who do know enough about roofing to specify a good roof. That may be competent specification consultants, or independent roofing consultants, or that may be manufacturers. But only a handful of the several hundred architects I have worked with in the last 30 years knew enough about roofing to be worthy of their clients' trust. Only one in a hundred would admit their ignorance, though. That's where the problem comes from. It's no wonder that owners turn directly to manufacturers for roofing/maintenance package agreements; their architects aren't up to the task and the owners learned the hard way that they have to reach out to the industry for help. We forget that this forum represents a minority of technically proficient, experienced specifiers, and that most of the $1.5T construction industry goes about its business without our input. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 203 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 10:21 am:    So Kathleen, sounds like you're dealing with WMATA or some similarly antiquated group. Hypalon was used successfully years ago on the Dulles Airport project. Good luck finding anyone who will furnish a membrane that works at this point. If they're willing to pay for hypalon they should be willing to pay for KEE. Perhaps you can tell them that it's the new hypalon. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, CCS, LEED AP (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 10:25 am:    I have to agree with Phil on this one although I would maintain that any practicing architect should be able to properly select, detail, and specify a low slope roof up to 20,000 to 25,000 sq. ft. (Maybe that ought to be one component of the ARE.) I do see architects trying to design roofs with the wrong materials, wrong details, and wrong details all the time. The roofers love it since it means that they are free to provide whatever they want. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1383 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 04:12 pm:    I'm pretty sure no one makes Hypalon roofing anymore.