Composite Structural Walls

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Author Message J. Peter Jordan (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 11:16 am:    I am gettin gready to write a specification for ThermaSteel System walls (see http://www.thermasteelcorp.com). The components are panelized composite structural panels of modified expanded polystyrene (EPS), bonded to a light-gauge, galvanized steel frame. These are manufactured panels erected on site with exterior and interior finish systems then applied to the panel. Representatives of this company have been pressing very hard for this system to be used in some commercial/institutional applications. It appears that we do have a good application so I am off to the races. Any advice on what kind of MasterFormat number to assign to this puppy? Somewhere in Division 13, I think. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 611 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 12:21 pm:    13 was my first blush thought too, but if we write precast concrete structural walls in 03, why wouldn't we put precast steel framed structural walls somewhere in 05? And remember the attempt to do prefabricated masonry walls (with epoxy mortar) a few decades ago? That was before my time as a specifier but I bet that was in 04. Just a thought - maybe I should stay out of the rest of the divisions and go back to my little area of 08. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: don_harris Post Number: 248 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 01:04 pm:    07 42 63 Fabricated Wall Panel Assemblies? Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 302 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 01:41 pm:    We have "structural insulated panels" on a current project that are composed of OSB faces with a foam core that perform a similar function to these metal panels. The SE selected 06 12 20; so a similar 05 number for a metal version would follow their thinking. John Hunter Senior Member Username: johnhunter Post Number: 90 Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 04:55 pm:    We actually specified this product several years ago for a couple of projects in the Southeast. My logic was that it was essentially a panelized metal stud wall so we put it in Division 05. On a side note, the system never penciled out for the projects and ended up being replaced with conventional cold-formed metal framing in each case. Peter, if you'd be willing to report back as to how the product works out for your application I'd appreciate it. J. Peter Jordan (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 07:14 pm:    The biggest problem we have had so far is getting the manufacturer to understand that the UL requirements for plastic insulation in exterior walls do apply for commerical construction. They have been told that if it meets 1-hour fire resistive testing, they don't have to do anything else. That is not what we have been told. Anyway, the building is less than 10,000 sq. ft., Type 5 construction so anything goes. Will see what happens. If you would be willing to share the spec you developed with me, I would appreciate it. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 487 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 05:12 pm:    Y'all would think that if the manufacturer was so keen on getting their product into a project, they'd have a decent guide specification, wouldn't ya'? And maybe have a competent code consultant look at the product before they try to sell - or oversell - it? Interesting product, though. Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 974 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 05:29 pm:    When a manufacturer's technical document references the 1994 UBC and ICBO reports, you have to question the validity of the data. Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Doug Frank FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: doug_frank_ccs Post Number: 287 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 09:59 am:    J. Peter,, Sounds like this outfit needs to hire a good independent specifier to help them create a guide spec. Maybe you could recommend someone to them ;-) Doug Frank FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate FKP Architects, Inc. Houston, TX ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 102 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 10:12 am:    So I guess NFPA 285 testing is out of the question. Hope their product is better than their technical references. Still references ASTM A525. Not a good sign. This one has to be my favorite line: See attached tests report and the panel approval as one-hour for property line set back mitigation issued by the Big Bear City Fire Department. J. Peter Jordan (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 10:21 am:    They don't understand about NFPA 285; afterall, it complies with UBC requirements. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1213 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - 12:22 pm:    I totally disagree with the idea that this go into Division 5: while Division 5 does cover metals, it does not cover "metal panels" except fleetingly in a decorative sense, whereas Division 6 covers both structural wood and wood panel products. I think a panelized system with metal exterior panels should be a subset of Division 7 exterior metal panels. nonetheless, I agree with Phil about getting having the manufacturer get a code consultant on board. We've been working with a composite concrete product and while the manufacturer wants to be in the market for large, splashy projects, their factory and code compliance is strictly skunkworks quality. Its been giving us pause -- and we've reminded them more than once that while they may be enthusiastic, working for corporate clients means you have to act like a grown-up.