cleavage membrane v. slip sheet v. cr...

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Author Message Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 556 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 06:08 pm:    I need some help with this topic. How does a liquid applied crack isolation membrane (ANSI 118.12) actually work? Why isn't a crack in the slab transmitted through the elastomeric properties of the CIM product and thereby directly into the tile above? Why would a liquid applied product be equivelent or as effective as a sheet membrane? What I am not factoring into the equation? Dale Roberts CSI, CCPR, CTC, LEED Green Associate Senior Member Username: dale_roberts_csi Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 07:53 pm:    The internal make-up of this membrane is such that movement in the concrete is not directly transferred to the tile. Although the membrane is bonded to the concrete and the tile to it, the membrane stretches where needed to prevent or reduce force transference Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 557 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 08:22 pm:    Dale, thanks for the offline response as well. In case anyone else poses this question, I will link up the YouTube video you shared with me. Pretty impressive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJARhU2vBE Dale Roberts CSI, CCPR, CTC, LEED Green Associate Senior Member Username: dale_roberts_csi Post Number: 112 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 08:34 pm:    Remember This test was done by a professional in a controlled test track, do not try this test on an actual job, your mileage may vary. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 634 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 02:37 am:    I assume that we are talking about a brick veneer that is otherwise anchored to a wall or backing. Otherwise do not install membrane without consultation with your engineer. Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 558 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 04:28 pm:    Hi Mark, not quite. I was thinking about tile being thinset over concrete. In my particular scenario, I have less coverage over anchor bolts and baseplates than anticipated, so I am concerned with cracking and spalling of the concrete paving. I am going to install a crack isolation membrane and then thinset some tile over the area in question in a hope to mask any actual cracking that may occur. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 636 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 05:38 pm:    I obviously did not read your initial posting carefully enough. Generally base plates are significantly lower to allow for installation of drain pipes. You may be more successful in dealing with your problem by installing more reinforcing in the thin portion of the slab. Consider small bar sizes or mesh. If the concrete is particularly thin you might locally replace it with concrete repair products that will also adhere to the steel. The concrete over the base plates also serves to protect the anchor bolts and base plates from corrosion. If you do not have the desired cover or have reason to believe the covering concrete will be cracked then you should have more concern for the protection of the anchor bolts and base plates from the effects of the moisture from the building. Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 559 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 07:03 pm:    I am aware of all these factors. My application is base plates on top of a elevated structural deck, nominally covered by a topping slab. We planned for a 5" topping slab and 3" over the base plates, but due to owner related circumstances, the final condition will be far less than that. I appreciate your willingness to help, but I do not want to go into details on this forum, nor do I need to. I believe that I have a competent solution to the field condition. Thanks. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 896 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 09:27 pm:    Nathan, Really best advice, regardless of your solution, is to talk to the manufacturer's of the tile setting systems that you specify. The main 3, Laticrete, Custom, Mapei, they will all respond with a specific system from the substrate up through the grout in the tile, that you should require to be single source to one of them, they will all provide you with specific products and they will all warrant their 'sandwich' of products. Hopefully, this is your 'competent solution'. William William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX