ASTM Standards in Building Codes

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Author Message Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 110 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 06:07 pm:    It appears that ASTM Standards in Building Codes is no longer available in hardcopy as a 4-volume set, but only in DVD or online versions. Is this true? When was it discontinued? Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1904 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 06:18 pm:    I think they stopped printing with the 2010 issue (at least that's the last one we have in the office). We did purchase a subscription to the online version and it's useful - easier to find things (the computer does it) and easier to copy if you need to do that. You can print if needed, and you can also send a PDF to someone. Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 06:37 pm:    Yes. For online access, the price jumps to $4,129 or more. And since it's a subscription, that's per year... It's really a shame; after all, they still print the complete 82-volume set of 12,000+ ASTM standards--about six times as many as the 2,000+ in the old 4-volume set). (It's $10,952 for 2014, and only $13,349 for the 2015 set...) Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 800 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 07:09 pm:    I prefer the DVD to hardcopy, much easier to search! As far as printing and sharing, the online single user license states the user has the right the right "to download, store or print single copies of individual Documents, or portions of such Documents, solely for Licensee's own use. That is, Licensee may access and download an electronic file of a Document (or portion of a Document) for temporary storage on one computer for purposes of viewing, and/or printing one copy of a Document for individual use. Neither the electronic file nor the single hard copy print may be reproduced in any way. In addition, the electronic file may not be distributed elsewhere over computer networks or otherwise. That is, the electronic file cannot be e mailed, downloaded to disk, copied to another hard drive or otherwise shared. The single hard copy print may only be distributed to others for their internal use within your organization; it may not be copied." The site license says the user has the right to "download, store or print single copies of individual Documents, or portions of such Documents for the Authorized User's personal use, and to share such copies with other Authorized Users of Licensee within Licensee's computer network ..." So when the CA guy needs a copy of an ASTM for discussion in the field, I print it, hand it to him, tell him not to copy it, and tell him to recycle it when he's done using it. Very convenient. I don't like the cost of the online version. ASTM makes a lot of noise about how much changes with each new edition, but most changes are minor, and I suspect few have much effect on what we do. If you don't compare a new edition to the previous one, you obviously don't care what it says anyway! (Or you don't have a full-time person to do such things.) I replaced our ASTMs every five years or so, without quarterly updates. That amounted to a few hundred bucks each year. Is it worth $4,000 per year to have access to the most current standards during the same time? CSI members get a discount. www.astm.org/BOOKSTORE/PUBS/CSISPECIAL.htm Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1267 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 07:45 pm:    You can still get the standards in building codes: http://www.astm.org/BOOKSTORE/COMPS/BLDGCD-CURRENT.htm Price: $1,312 Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 801 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 08:15 pm:    Robert is looking for hardcopy; I didn't try too hard, but I didn't see that on the website. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1268 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 09:03 pm:    Yeah, I know, but he was saying that he now had to pay $4,129 to get the standards. Although not available in book form, the building codes compilation is available, but only in DVD and online for a cost that is much less than the price he quoted. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 112 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 09:13 pm:    Some years ago, the firm I worked for had a 4-volume set of ASTM standards that was 12(!) years old, so I recommended it buy the current CD version with updates. Big mistake. Instead of the convenience of 4 books on the shelf available to all, it could only be accessed on my computer. And it had a draconian end-user license agreement (EULA) like the single user license Sheldon cited above: I could only print one copy of any given standard--ever. I could show it to colleagues, but couldn't copy it or send a pdf by email. The books, at least, were subject to "fair use." And owned, not just licensed. But wait--there's more. Each quarterly update required me to uninstall the entire previous version before I could install the new one. And since the instructions and procedure were cumbersome and confusing, that process could take 30 to 45 minutes. Or more, with calls to tech support, and long hold times. EXTREMELY frustrating. Decided never to buy the electronic version again, only the books--maybe get a new set every 2-3 years or so, and ship the old set to one of our other offices. Back then (6-8 years ago), IIRC, a set cost about $800-$900 . So I suppose $1,312 is reasonable in today's dollars--but again, that's for the single user, single site, one-printed-copy-only version... Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: don_harris Post Number: 280 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 11:48 am:    My set of standards is 10 years old, so I got the company to approve purchasing the newest DVD. The price was $1312 which seems expensive, but when you think of the cost of all the committees and such, it doesn't seem so bad. However, the complete shock came when I checked out and the shipping costs for a DVD was $68.25. I called them to make sure that was correct and was told yes, because they charge shipping based on the COST of the item, not the item itself. Incredulously, I hung up the phone and finalized my check-out. $68.25 to ship a DVD? Really? Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 699 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 12:42 pm:    My employer subscribes to MADCAD.com (a third party cloud based reference library). Select the packages or single books you require. Go to http://www.madcad.com/subscriptions/ Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 605 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 12:57 pm:    We use MadCAD also. Pretty useful service.