LEGEND OR SCHEDULE

Log Out | Topics | Search Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Author Message Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 679 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 12:49 pm:    I am curious how all y'all out there define and use legends and schedules and legends versus schedules. To me a schedule (room finish schedule for example) is different than a legend of interior finish material type designations. However, designers in my firm continue to call these legends "schedules". The room finish schedule typically lists each room and it's floor, base, walls (n,e,s,w), ceilings, soffits, etc finishes, using the type designatiors from the legend. Thoughts please. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 817 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 12:58 pm:    I usually see a Room Finish Schedule as you described with a Finish Legend giving information on the selections for each item listed in the Schedule. This usually drives me nuts since I prefer to list the Legend info in the specs where it belongs. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1879 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 02:06 pm:    Agree with you both. From Merriam-Webster: Legend: a list that explains the symbols (as) on a map. Schedule is a written list of things to be done, as a catalog, inventory, program, etc. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 148 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 02:14 pm:    The definitions above agree w/ my understanding of these terms, too. "Legend" and "Key" are sometimes used interchangeably on Dwgs to refer to an explanation of Dwg symbols. Curiously, if as Ken points out, information that might be in a Legend on the Dwgs is included in the specs, we typically refer to it as a "Schedule." Does anyone use "Legend" in specifications? Jeff Wilson Wilson Consulting Inc Narberth PA ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 818 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 04:11 pm:    Oddly, no. But then again I list each group of products in their respective Sections so, again, I suppose I'm including a schedule of products or systems (such as tile setting) that then corresponds with the Finish Schedule. spiper (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 04:18 pm:    We typically do a room finish schedule on the drawings that gives material types and let the spec sections include the information on the actual product selections (or performance specs if the selections are not final). However for the last few years we have been doing a "Final Room Finish Schedule" to include with the close-out packet. This schedule expands/revises the bid document schedule to include all of the actual selections including model numbers, colors, finish etc. right on the final schedule itself. We have found that Owners have a difficult time finding product information and material selections in their records. The final schedule becomes their reference document and it also puts all of the information in one document for our office when we do repeat work in the future. We often get a request from a client to "do the same VCT we used in the Science wing 3 years ago" or "use the same paint finish (satin, semi-gloss, etc.) that we used in the auditorium lobby in 08". The final finish schedule will have that information in a quick and easy reference location along with all of the other finish information. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1881 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 05:33 pm:    And then there's "Key Notes". We use "tags" (which are not called out as that) such as VCT1. That tag will appear on the drawings, the Room Finish Schedule and in the spec where it is clearly (I hope) defined as being of a certain manufacturer, color, type, size, etc., and is differentiated there from VCT2 and all the rest. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 682 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 06:14 pm:    Lynn, We do the same but call your tags "type designators". Designers here have a choice to specify manufacturer, source and product attributes in a "legend" in the drawings or in the specification. A "legend" in the drawings is the most popular choice. Designer use the drawings for floor/base, wall/wainscot. and ceiling finishes, colors. This method makes our job easier in that we repeat "Specified in the Drawings Interior Finishes Legend." I am still old school and prefer the spread sheet method bound in to the project manual. Am I still permitted to use project manual? Designers forget about all the collateral stuff that needs finishing, especally painting. Such as handrails, stair soffits, stingers, risers, structure, etc. Metals finishes is another abused material. Curtain wall, alunimum entrances and storefronts, metal wall panels all become decorative metals. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1883 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 06:27 pm:    Things like handrails, stringers, structure, etc., are a source of discussion - where in a "Room" Finish Schedule do you place things like that? Where do you place exterior items to be painted? Not everything fits into that nice little "box" of a "room". While I don't have designers who forget about those things, they are usually at a loss as to where to schedule them. Better to call it a "Finish Schedule" where those things can be listed. And yes, use 09 06XX.XX in the Project Manual. Bruce Konschuh Senior Member Username: brucek Post Number: 6 Registered: 08-2014 Posted on Monday, October 20, 2014 - 07:11 pm:    "Key Notes" above really gets me. Many (most?) architects spell this "keynotes" or even "keyednotes" as one word. But no one spells "General Notes" as "generalnotes." Two words, please - for all of these types of callouts or tags. ($%DT*! - should "callout" be one word or two? I say one) Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1902 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 03:20 pm:    Remember one of the 4 "C"s - clear. Whichever way makes the meaning clearest is the best way. Hence, I'd prefer two words: "key notes", "general notes", "call outs" (or maybe "call-outs", although we don't use that term). [And that way, if there's a typo, you're not writing about a children's book "Caillou"...] Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 799 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 04:04 pm:    The UDS has this to say: "During the post World War II era, "keying" became a standard method for improving drawing clarity through text reduction within the drawing block. A "keyed" note consisted of an alphanumeric indicator symbol and leader line with a legend of those symbols and the full text notes located elsewhere on the drawing sheet." Aside from explaining the origin of keynotes, the UDS uses only "keynotes", and defines two specific types: Reference Keynotes and Sheet Keynotes. I don't know what the current CSI Practice Guide says, but the PRM uses "keynote"; "key note" does not appear. "Standards of Practice in Construction Specifying" and other references also uses "keynote" exclusively. Written as two words, the term may suggest that the "key notes" are "of paramount importance" and other notes are not so important.