Elevator Cab Flooring - Resinous

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Author Message a (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 05:15 pm:    Has anyone ever used resinous flooring in "semi-exterior" elevator cabs? (think underground station entrances). Looking for something more durable than rubber tile, and I am told there ARE troweled epoxy-hybrid mortars with cove that will work for these systems (e.g., General Polymers, Dex-O-Tex). My concern is possible cracking. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 569 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 05:46 pm:    Unregistered Guest - where are you located? I would suggest contacting you General Polymer Rep. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 464 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 07:07 pm:    It's done pretty regularly in industrial applications. A couple of considerations: 1. Make sure you use a flexible epoxy or other flexible primer direct to the substrate. I would go so far as to ask the seamless flooring manufacturer how they feel about an actual cleavage membrane such as Nobleseal CIS or NobleDeck. This will add cost but it may save the installation. 2. When you say 'semi-exterior' is there any UV exposure? If so, consider a urethane topcoat with UV inhibitors. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 570 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 07:32 pm:    I concur with Ken. I always use a cleavage membrane under any type of flooring, except for resilient, in an elevator cab; including tile or stone. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1485 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 - 04:46 pm:    Would not a cleavage membrane require a greater thickness than the typical 1/4 inch? I'm pretty sure that these thin systems are bonded systems, even if bonded to something more flexible than a concrete slab. And if it's thicker, you will probably exceed the weight allowed by the elevator manufacturer. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 466 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 10:04 am:    Both the cleavage membranes and the resinous flooring systems are sufficiently thin as to not be a problem. The bigger question is whether a resinous flooring system manufacturer is okay with putting their product over a sheet membrane. Most flooring manufacturers offer direct-to-substrate flexible epoxies that are supposed to serve as crack suppression membranes. Another issue can be the substrate of the elevator cabs which is often little more than plywood. With the flex you get in the floor, and the presences of joints in the plywood, the opportunity for cracking is pretty high (think of what happens when Staples delivers a hand truck stacked with boxes of paper). As John points out, a potential problem with some finished floor options is that unless you have a custom cab the depth allowed by the elevator cab manufacturers is pretty minimal. We know that projects that have extended epoxy terrazzo systems into the elevators have cost a fair amount but they have been built. Biggest issue has been cracks telegraphing through the finished floor. With that system, grinding the aggregate while achieving an aesthetically pleasing end result becomes a headache. Still, no reason why this can't be done as long as it's done right. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 388 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 12:25 pm:    For our projects with epoxy terazzo flooring, we usually specify that the same mix design be provided in precast tile (and base) form for areas where we have concerns about cast-in-ppace field application such as elevator cab floors and steel stair landings. a (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 12:55 pm:    Thanks, all, for your very helpful and informative feedback. FYI, the manufacturers I contacted do these types of installs with a modified, flexible epoxy membrane (not sheet) as the first lift/layer that serves as a crack isolation membrane, waterproofing, and "fluid proofing" (whatever that means). The data sheets list lots of uses, but does not specifically list elevator (or moving floor) installations, and I am still waiting on actual project names. John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 613 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 07:28 pm:    Uh, ever been in an elevator in a parking garage? "Fluid" can be all sorts of nasty stuff ... including cleaning solutions. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 468 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 10:00 pm:    Actually it would probably make sense to find out from elevator cab manufacturers how much deflection they design their cab floors for. Then contact the flooring manufacturer to find out how much deflection their systems can take. Remember to impose a significant rolling load concurrently since that would be roughly equivalent to worst-case scenario.