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a (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Is "cementatious" an actual (official) word, or simply a garbled version of "cementitious"? There are a lot of "googled" listings, but no definitions in any of my on-hand manuals (at my other office).
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods

Post Number: 435
Registered: 08-2005


Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 01:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I think its a garble. I consulted my comprehensive "Dictionary of Architect & Construction" by McGrawHill (3rd edition), as well as an older, mid-70's copy of the "Architectural & Building Trades Dictionary", and this word was not listed in either. As a possible (but unlikely) alternative to "Cementitious", could it have meant "Cementation"?
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT
Senior Member
Username: rliebing

Post Number: 1304
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 02:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

From Merriam-Webster website;

cementatious
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.

1.cementitious
2.cementation
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: bunzick

Post Number: 1370
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 01:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Could be like confusing "siliceous" with "salacious," though at least these are two actual words.
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski

Post Number: 1417
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 03:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

there are many garbled words out there, some struggling to be deemed official. Have you heard anyone say that it's a "mute" point when you think they meant "moot"?

I know language - at least English/American - is a changing and evolving thing, but I don't think we should make up words just to make them up. They should have a viable use, and not just be a mis-use or mis-spelling of a perfectly good, useful existing word. It's not like there's a dearth of words to use.
Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: wilsonconsulting

Post Number: 60
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 09:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Obviously, cementatious is the stuff used in masonary.
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman

Post Number: 1001
Registered: 03-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 09:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Wrong, Jeffery. It is used to build cement ponds in Beverly Hills.
Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
www.specsandcodes.com
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski

Post Number: 1420
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 - 10:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

And John? Nothing should be confused with "salacious"...ever...
c (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 06:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

It is obvious that the comments are being approach from a linguistic angle with very little regard for the actual question.

Cementatious will refer to the properties of the material used in the manufacturing of cement. For example the lime stone used in the manufacturing of cement has a specific LSF, meaning the ratio between the Calcium, Silica and Magnesium which makes it suitable to be used in the manufacturing of cement.

Cementitious refers to a manufactured product which possesses certain characteristics which will allow this product to achieve certain properties within a specific time period.

I am not a linguist hence I apologize in advance for my grammar usage and possible spelling mistakes.
Dave Metzger
Senior Member
Username: davemetzger

Post Number: 466
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

No need to apologize. Specifiers use words and so must be familiar with their definitions and usages. The regular contributors to this forum have cemented professional relationships, and formed concrete friendships, based on this common bond.
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski

Post Number: 1673
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 02:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

There is this:
Cementatious admixture
US 4773934 A
Abstract
A cementatious admixture for use either as a mortar, cement or concrete when added to water comprising a hydraulic cement, such as Portland cement, in combination with presized inorganic filler particles having a maximum particle size of about 50 microns and in a predetermined relationship by weight to the Portland cement. The added water must also satisfy a relationship to the weight of hydraulic cement to provide thixotropy and nondilatency.

The cementatious admixture of the present invention requires no lime and substantially increases the compression strength, workability, cohesiveness and plasticity of the admixed mortar, cement and concrete respectively.

Read more here: http://www.google.com/patents/US4773934

So it has a definition. I'm not sure if the definition supplied by "c (Unregistered Guest)" agrees with this, but since this definition refers to a U.S. Patent, (U.S. Pat. No. 4,666,521), I don't think we can challenge or change it.
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods

Post Number: 540
Registered: 08-2005


Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 02:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I find the term "cementitious" to be misused most often in spray fire resistive material descriptions, or perhaps merely missleading depending on whether my own understanding of the term is wrong. But when I look at something stating that it is cementitious, I anticipate that it contains Portland Cement. Many SFRM's do not actually have Portland cement in them.
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg

Post Number: 576
Registered: 12-2006


Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 03:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Nathan, cement can refer to any number of substances. Gypsum can be a cementitious material just like Portland cement or rubber cement or hundreds of other materials.

Cementitious SFRM is seen as being different than mineral fiber (wet mix vs. dry mix). One has the water added to the mix and is pumped through the hose, the other has the water added at the nozzle. This has been hotly debated several times on this forum. I pray that we don't get into it again here. I'm sure you can find a lot of information by doing a 4specs search if you'd like.

Typically in our industry cementitious coatings are seen as having a concrete-like appearance (09 97 26 in MasterFormat) but I think that's a holdover from an industry-accepted slang term (that I have been as guilty of using as anyone).

Products with cementitious content are seen as being items such as mortar, concrete, non-metallic grout, and a myriad of other items, patents notwithstanding. I have never heard of a cementatious material in our industry, including when researching the manufacture of cement clinkers. Then again, there is possibly an infinite number of items that I am ignorant about in our industry.

I've sent in a request to Lafarge to see if they've encountered a similar disparity in terminology. Perhaps it would be interesting to contact Lehigh and others. After all, they are the people whose products we seem to be referring to. Perhaps we can get them to pass judgment on our terminology and move on.
Richard Howard, AIA CSI CCS LEED-AP
Senior Member
Username: rick_howard

Post Number: 272
Registered: 07-2003


Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 04:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Gypsum is defined as cementitious in ASTM C 11: "cementitious material, n — a material that, when mixed with water, with or without aggregate, provides the plasticity and the cohesive and adhesive properties necessary for placement, and the formation of a rigid mass." In fact, gypsum is blended into portland cement to help avoid flash setting.
SFRM products often are blends of various proportions of portland cement and gypsum, depending on what properties are needed.
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre

Post Number: 1365
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 09:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I took one of those "strengths" tests for an office group and one of mine is "intellection".

I told the group manager that I did not respect any testing authority that made up words.
Brian E. Trimble, CDT
Senior Member
Username: brian_e_trimble_cdt

Post Number: 66
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2013 - 11:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Believe it or not, there is a cement and concrete thesaurus that helps delinate terms used in the cement industry: http://www.cement.org/library/lb_thesaurus.asp. There is no heading for cementatious. I also come from the masonry industry and we only used the word cementitious. Its pronounced see-men-tish-ious, not see-men-tay-tious.
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski

Post Number: 1674
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2013 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Well, then, someone best contact the U.S. Patent office and tell them they got it wrong.
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman

Post Number: 1133
Registered: 03-2003


Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2013 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I also checked ASTM C 125, Standard Terminology Relating to Concrete and Concrete Aggregates, and it, too, only uses "cementitious"--no mention of "cementatious."
Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
www.specsandcodes.com
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg

Post Number: 580
Registered: 12-2006


Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2013 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I'm shocked. Our government can't even get this right? How can they award a patent if the people submitting and checking the patent can't spell properly? Makes me wonder just how good the product is going to be. Hope the engineering is better than the spelling.
Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: louis_medcalf

Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2010
Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 02:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I find the folks who say 'masonary' also say 'cementuous'.

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