| Author |
Message |
a (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 12:20 pm: |    |
Is "cementatious" an actual (official) word, or simply a garbled version of "cementitious"? There are a lot of "googled" listings, but no definitions in any of my on-hand manuals (at my other office). |
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 435
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 01:46 pm: | |
I think its a garble. I consulted my comprehensive "Dictionary of Architect & Construction" by McGrawHill (3rd edition), as well as an older, mid-70's copy of the "Architectural & Building Trades Dictionary", and this word was not listed in either. As a possible (but unlikely) alternative to "Cementitious", could it have meant "Cementation"? |
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT
Senior Member
Username: rliebing
Post Number: 1304
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 02:07 pm: | |
From Merriam-Webster website;
cementatious
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.
1.cementitious
2.cementation |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 1370
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 01:34 pm: | |
Could be like confusing "siliceous" with "salacious," though at least these are two actual words. |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1417
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 03:18 pm: | |
there are many garbled words out there, some struggling to be deemed official. Have you heard anyone say that it's a "mute" point when you think they meant "moot"?
I know language - at least English/American - is a changing and evolving thing, but I don't think we should make up words just to make them up. They should have a viable use, and not just be a mis-use or mis-spelling of a perfectly good, useful existing word. It's not like there's a dearth of words to use. |
Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: wilsonconsulting
Post Number: 60
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 09:35 pm: | |
Obviously, cementatious is the stuff used in masonary. |
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 1001
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 09:46 pm: | |
Wrong, Jeffery. It is used to build cement ponds in Beverly Hills.
Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
www.specsandcodes.com |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1420
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 - 10:00 am: | |
And John? Nothing should be confused with "salacious"...ever... |
c (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 06:25 am: | |
It is obvious that the comments are being approach from a linguistic angle with very little regard for the actual question.
Cementatious will refer to the properties of the material used in the manufacturing of cement. For example the lime stone used in the manufacturing of cement has a specific LSF, meaning the ratio between the Calcium, Silica and Magnesium which makes it suitable to be used in the manufacturing of cement.
Cementitious refers to a manufactured product which possesses certain characteristics which will allow this product to achieve certain properties within a specific time period.
I am not a linguist hence I apologize in advance for my grammar usage and possible spelling mistakes. |
Dave Metzger
Senior Member
Username: davemetzger
Post Number: 466
Registered: 07-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 10:55 am: | |
No need to apologize. Specifiers use words and so must be familiar with their definitions and usages. The regular contributors to this forum have cemented professional relationships, and formed concrete friendships, based on this common bond. |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1673
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 02:44 pm: | |
There is this:
Cementatious admixture
US 4773934 A
Abstract
A cementatious admixture for use either as a mortar, cement or concrete when added to water comprising a hydraulic cement, such as Portland cement, in combination with presized inorganic filler particles having a maximum particle size of about 50 microns and in a predetermined relationship by weight to the Portland cement. The added water must also satisfy a relationship to the weight of hydraulic cement to provide thixotropy and nondilatency.
The cementatious admixture of the present invention requires no lime and substantially increases the compression strength, workability, cohesiveness and plasticity of the admixed mortar, cement and concrete respectively.
Read more here: http://www.google.com/patents/US4773934
So it has a definition. I'm not sure if the definition supplied by "c (Unregistered Guest)" agrees with this, but since this definition refers to a U.S. Patent, (U.S. Pat. No. 4,666,521), I don't think we can challenge or change it. |
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 540
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 02:49 pm: | |
I find the term "cementitious" to be misused most often in spray fire resistive material descriptions, or perhaps merely missleading depending on whether my own understanding of the term is wrong. But when I look at something stating that it is cementitious, I anticipate that it contains Portland Cement. Many SFRM's do not actually have Portland cement in them. |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 576
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 03:08 pm: | |
Nathan, cement can refer to any number of substances. Gypsum can be a cementitious material just like Portland cement or rubber cement or hundreds of other materials.
Cementitious SFRM is seen as being different than mineral fiber (wet mix vs. dry mix). One has the water added to the mix and is pumped through the hose, the other has the water added at the nozzle. This has been hotly debated several times on this forum. I pray that we don't get into it again here. I'm sure you can find a lot of information by doing a 4specs search if you'd like.
Typically in our industry cementitious coatings are seen as having a concrete-like appearance (09 97 26 in MasterFormat) but I think that's a holdover from an industry-accepted slang term (that I have been as guilty of using as anyone).
Products with cementitious content are seen as being items such as mortar, concrete, non-metallic grout, and a myriad of other items, patents notwithstanding. I have never heard of a cementatious material in our industry, including when researching the manufacture of cement clinkers. Then again, there is possibly an infinite number of items that I am ignorant about in our industry.
I've sent in a request to Lafarge to see if they've encountered a similar disparity in terminology. Perhaps it would be interesting to contact Lehigh and others. After all, they are the people whose products we seem to be referring to. Perhaps we can get them to pass judgment on our terminology and move on. |
Richard Howard, AIA CSI CCS LEED-AP
Senior Member
Username: rick_howard
Post Number: 272
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 04:04 pm: | |
Gypsum is defined as cementitious in ASTM C 11: "cementitious material, n — a material that, when mixed with water, with or without aggregate, provides the plasticity and the cohesive and adhesive properties necessary for placement, and the formation of a rigid mass." In fact, gypsum is blended into portland cement to help avoid flash setting.
SFRM products often are blends of various proportions of portland cement and gypsum, depending on what properties are needed. |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 1365
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 09:05 pm: | |
I took one of those "strengths" tests for an office group and one of mine is "intellection".
I told the group manager that I did not respect any testing authority that made up words. |
Brian E. Trimble, CDT
Senior Member
Username: brian_e_trimble_cdt
Post Number: 66
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2013 - 11:26 am: | |
Believe it or not, there is a cement and concrete thesaurus that helps delinate terms used in the cement industry: http://www.cement.org/library/lb_thesaurus.asp. There is no heading for cementatious. I also come from the masonry industry and we only used the word cementitious. Its pronounced see-men-tish-ious, not see-men-tay-tious. |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1674
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2013 - 11:29 am: | |
Well, then, someone best contact the U.S. Patent office and tell them they got it wrong. |
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 1133
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2013 - 11:33 am: | |
I also checked ASTM C 125, Standard Terminology Relating to Concrete and Concrete Aggregates, and it, too, only uses "cementitious"--no mention of "cementatious."
Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
www.specsandcodes.com |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 580
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2013 - 11:47 am: | |
I'm shocked. Our government can't even get this right? How can they award a patent if the people submitting and checking the patent can't spell properly? Makes me wonder just how good the product is going to be. Hope the engineering is better than the spelling. |
Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: louis_medcalf
Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 02:35 pm: | |
I find the folks who say 'masonary' also say 'cementuous'. |
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