Specifications Budgets

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Author Message David S. Proudfit, FCSI, CCS, AIA New member Username: dproudfit Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2011 Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 11:43 am:    I am looking for any ideas, rules of thumbs, procedures for determining the specifications budget for a project. Is it 1%...10%...30% of the project? Any thoughts would be apreciated. Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 422 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 12:06 pm:    The problem is that 1 or 100 hollow metal doors results in the same section. I estimate based upon building type as this is an indication of complexity and therefore number of sections. Having then guessed/estimated the number of sections and added time for new or unique products or assemblies I add a number for "Who's divisions 00 and 01?" I then add a number for (or exclude) door hardware, civil engineering, and other sections/divisions written by engineers or consultants with special expertise. I then add the fudge factors including: The client (universities with thousands of ignorant reviewers and multiple reviews; Anne W. taught me this one) The architect: Organized? Product cutsheets or vague references to "stuff"? and other such comments Fighting with stupid engineers I know of: AEI to NOT use Division 20 (Idiots!) (oh! did I say that publically) Most structural engineers about floor flatness and concrete finishing Number of iterations/reviews required - DD 50% Cds 75% Cds etc etc. finally if I have to act as their secretary and typist (this costs more as it irritates me) but seriously assembling a spec and printing is an 8 hour task. Then I take a stab at a number below are minimum numbers that I then increase with the fudge factors above: New - I mean new - product sections totally from scratch 8 hours Regular sections 4 hours Brain dead sections (gyp board) 1 hour Having an architect actually read and comment intelligently on your spec - priceless M Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: robert_w_johnson Post Number: 171 Registered: 03-2009 Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 12:08 pm:    The extent and complexity of specifications and therefore the budget relate to the number of materials and methods rather than the size of the project. It doesn't matter where you have 10 SF of a material/method, or 10,000 SF, it still requires a specification section(s). You also need to evaluate the complexity of the subjects and the research required. The best way to determine the budget for specifications is to prepare a preliminary table of contents based on available information and then apply $$ per section based on experience. Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 423 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 12:10 pm:    remember when I say... 4 hours for a regular section... I'm counting: The draft I submit Changing it to incorporate comments Changing it again to fix the comments and then Changing the color of the item at the last minute to "TBD" as this is the most requesting color and pattern for all interior finishes in the USA Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1219 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 12:47 pm:    I'm with Marc, but I use 1-1/2 hours per section and then add on: 20 hours per client review 20 hours for Division 01 20 hours per submittal. and I add in a factor for how long the project will be on my desk (long deadline, means more messing around with the documents; short deadline means I hand it over and never see it again) and complexity of project judged by number of consultants, whether its a government project, and the like. generally, my estimates run from 1-1/2 hours per section to 8 hours per section Tony Wolf, AIA, CCS, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: tony_wolf Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2007 Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 02:57 pm:    I understand the thinking and the methodology, and I think most experienced specifiers follow a similar one. The thought occurs to me that CSI could provide service and training in this regard to specifiers. There's no substitute for experience, especially if it's in a particular building type. But a database would be handy; an in-depth study would be better. Might this be something the CSI undertakes as it begins 're-branding' itself? It would be useful, if only for checking, to know that a particular building type involves a range of number of sections from n1 to n2,and it represents a range in spec hours from x to y, a range in spec fee as a percentage of architect's fee from a to b, and a range in spec fee as a percentage of project cost from p to q. If modifiers [e.g., for size region, architect's sophistication] were included, so much the better. Helaine K. Robinson CSI CCS CCCA SCIP Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 377 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 03:01 pm:    We need to watch out for collusion here. Mr. Splickety (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 01:09 pm:    David, In addition to the guesstimating devices posted above, another very effective way to establish a meaningful estimate of time on projects I typically employ involves dragging the hours spent from 2-3 similar projects - similar here meaning project size, complexity, and client type. I work for a large firm with an accounting department that does this for me when i ask nicely. If you are a one man shop, I would guess that this informaiton is at the ready. I find that not looking at my historical data form previous projects, budget estimates can be wildly incorrect. J. Peter Jordan (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 12:42 pm:    I agree with the comments made about specification scope rather than project size. A high-end retail shop with 1,500 sq. ft. and a mezzanine may have more sections than a 100,000 sq. ft. single-story facility that is esentially a server farm. Just for starters, a 2-story building is going to involve at least 2 more sections than a single-story building (stairs and elevators), usually more. My fee/budget is a function of how many sections and how many submittals. It also depends on how much you know about "your client;" i.e., the A/Es you are working for whether you are independent (like I am) or "captured" (working for a design firm like Marc-as if anyone could catch Marc). After almost six years of working with several design firms, I can come pretty close to coming up with an approximate section count if I know the building type and the project architect I will be working with. It also has a lot to do with the condition of your master specifications. If your masters are old, it will take more time to go through them. If you do more than a few projects, it will be worth your while to update the sections you use most often. I do like to go through the Project with the project architect before I develop a section count. This permits me to better identify SICS (stuff I can't see); otherwise, I will need to include a fudge factor (or SICS factor) for additional sections. On the otherhand, I know that I will need some sections on almost every project (metal fabrications, rough carpentry, joint sealants, etc.) which may not be explicit in the information communicated to me. Method of project procurement is another issue. Large public clients may have stuff that is pretty cut and dried, but takes time to produce (largely clerical). Private clients who want to bid to selected bidders may take more time to get all of the information and get it reviewed by everyone who needs to see it. To get the invitation and instructions to bidders and bid forms may take more time than doing Division 01. And dealing with Owners who don't do this very often will take more effort. I seem to remember a rule of thumb that specs were supposed to take 5% of the time allotted to CDs or 5% of that portion of the total net fee (40%). This comes to 2% of the total fee. For my regular clients, I would be happy to charge them 2% on all of their projects so that I would get $2,000 on the $100,000 fee or $100,000 on the $6,000,000 fee. However, the reality is that no one is going to pay $100,000 for a set of specs even on a big project, and I can't afford to charge only $2,000 for a small project that is even modestly complex. Gerard Sanchis Senior Member Username: gerard_sanchis Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2009 Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 02:08 pm:    David, There are so many variables when establishing the budget for a project that your question cannot be answered without knowing what these variables are: I’ll list a few: 1. Project funding type; public or private. 2. Project delivery type; design/bid/build; design/build; multiple prime contracts, etc………. 3. Type of client; new or existing, private or public agency. 4. Type of guide specs (masters) to be used for writing the specifications. As one of my old partner used to say, “I know where the corpses are buried in my masters, but I have to charge more to find out where they are in yours.” 5. Design team staffing and experience, including experience working with the other disciplines and their familiarity with MasterFormat and the Section Format. If you’re going to do a lot of hand holding, it’ll affect your fee. 6. Responsibility for preparing Division Zero and One. 7. Schedules; if you have to work 7 days a week for a month, then you should be compensated accordingly. 8. Responsibility for other consultants’ specifications. We always vet them for coordination and formatting but not every specifier/consultant does. 9. Size of the project. I disagree with previous comments that the number of Sections that you have to write is the largest factor in determining the fee; I always tell my clients that writing the specs is the easy part, getting to the point where you sit down and write the specs is the difficult part. Large projects require more coordination, usually weekly or monthly meetings, multiple bid packages, and tiered reviews of the documents – all time consuming. Finally I also disagree with Peter’s comments regarding the fees. You should be paid according to the time you expect to spend on a project, plus a reasonable profit (I use a minimum of 10 percent); fees of 100K and over are not that unusual for large projects lasting a year or more to complete. Tony Wolf, AIA, CCS, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: tony_wolf Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2007 Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 02:35 pm:    I agree that estimating the time is a complex undertaking, but so is estimating construction itself. Tools have been developed for doing that. Gerard, you've shown that the factors can be identified. I would like to see some data-gathering and software that reduce the blackbox guestimation aspect and the time expended. I welcome David's question, and hope something comes of it. I'm not concerned about collusion, any more than contractors who use the same cost data and software should worry about it. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 308 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 03:05 pm:    A variable I know well from years with my firm is "who is the lead designer". One designer will want a minimalist material palette, with maybe 4 exterior skin materials. All your work will be spent making sure that the white of the finish on the aluminum curtain wall is precisely the same as the field applied white paint on a pipe railing. Another designer I work with frequently will soon have me creating schedules of the 12 brick colors and coordinating the 10 exterior glass types with the three but-glazed framing systems and the 5 4-sided compression fitting framing systems and on and on and on. Tony Wolf, AIA, CCS, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: tony_wolf Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2007 Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 03:32 pm:    at least your designers are predictable and consistent. count your blessings. ~ o | \_/ Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 85 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 01:48 pm:    Many GREAT points here!! I had to laugh at a couple of Marc's comments about about who the architect is...those same thoughts cross my mind depending on who the internal PA is at the beginning of a Project in my current office. I will be storing this information, especially on some of the factors applied, away as I may be needing them in the not-so-distant future!! :D Ride it like you stole it!!! ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 114 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 07:17 pm:    Okay, but realistically the numbers I used to get shoved at me at previous firms was 2 percent of the Architect's fee for small projects, 1-1/2 percent typically, 1 percent or less for very large projects. Then they asked me to cut it by 50 percent and never gave me the information until it was impossible to use the entire fee anyway. I'm sorry, did that sound bitter? Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1223 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 07:02 pm:    I would agree that "the architect" is a big factor in the time. I had one architect (when I was at NBBJ) who revised a tile section 23 times before he was happy. By the end, he was changing punctuation and word arrangement. He also was the type who put something in a project and then took it out and then put it back in again. This is why I always set up a "not used" folder on each job -- the real title is "taken out and not used now but may go back in" folder. When I first started working in the late 1970's, the budget for specs used to be (and the AIA gave out this number ) 10% of the Architect's budget for the architectural work. (so back out all the consultant time first). I mention that number now and everyone laughs at me, but I still use it illustratively when I talk about how specs have changed. I have gotten $150,000 fees for a project before -- only it was spread out over three years, so not nearly as impressive as it sounded at the time. The project was an $80 million public health hospital. (I also had a client who did public housing and she could only afford $400 for a set, so that's what I billed her. the big jobs paid for the pro bono jobs.) Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 311 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 07:46 pm:    I also create a file for Spec Sections that are in and out of the project several times before the project is complete. Folder names I have used include: Wrecking Yard (good used parts) Cloverfield (movie reference) Surplus Materials Junk Pile (for a particularly ever-changing project) Floating Chad (a couple elections ago) Dark Matter Holding Cell Pool of Despond (yes, a natatorium) Fortunately the IT managers give the specs a wide berth. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 312 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 07:51 pm:    10 years ago or more I had a long salary negotiation with firm leaders who were not interested at all in the specifications. At that time I found some reference source that was from a respectable organization, AIA or CSI, that suggested 8% to 12%. They took that away and later the CEO told me that they had found enough confirmation to give me what I had asked for. Those days seem to be long gone. Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 212 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 11:27 pm:    I wish I had some of those figures on the last job I put together! Steve, I love those names for your files. I just use plain old "abandon". I may borrow some of them just to keep me sane on some of these military projects. Jim Sliff Senior Member Username: jim_sliff Post Number: 108 Registered: 08-2010 Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 08:05 pm:    Steven - I should not have wasted the excellent 100% Kona coffee I just spewed all over my keyboard reading your post! "Cloverfield"...man, do I have a few for THAT file. Thanks for the inspiration!