GL INSURANCE

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1150 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 01:29 pm:    I just lost a nice job because I did not have GL Insurance. Usually I work directly for the architect, but on this job the developer sought out my services, we had a deal set, but apparently the developer did not realize I did not have insurance, even though it was clearly indicated on the agreement, which he executed. Than he cancelled. I wonder how many independent spec writers/ specifiers carry Insurance? I know of only one in Florida and Mark Kalin in Boston area. Curious about my peers lurking on this forum. Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 378 Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 01:34 pm:    General Liability insurance is not expensive. 4specs (through USAA) uses the Hartford and it is $425 a year which is their minimum I guess. I carry this as many CSI Chapter shows and Construct have it in the fine print and do not enforce it. Utah also requires me to carry Workman's Comp on the 4 part time 1099-contractors that sell and support 4specs - also Hartford and about the same rate. Colin Gilboy Publisher, 4specs.com 435.200.5775 - Utah 800.369.8008 Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1151 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 01:38 pm:    Except that I am an architect and I've been told that even though I don't sign and seal, I would be insured as an architect, not as a spec writer. Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 154 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 01:47 pm:    I have general liability insurance. I didn't when my office was a home office, but when I moved into an office building, I got it. I've always had professional liability insurance. David E Lorenzini Senior Member Username: deloren Post Number: 158 Registered: 04-2000 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 01:48 pm:    I have to submit a Certificate of General Liability every year to my clients. Like Colin said, it only cost about $500 a year. I also have to increase my automobile liability insurance limits as part of my client's requirements. This has nothing to do with professional liability insurance often required of architects and other professionals, and sometimes of specifiers. My contracts clearly say that I don't provide professional liability insurance. Sometimes a client includes me in his policy on specific projects where the owner requires everyone on the team to be insured. David Lorenzini, FCSI, CCS Architectural Resources Co. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1152 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 02:39 pm:    Colin, how much coverage do you get for $425? Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 379 Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 02:43 pm:    Remember General Liability is not Professional Liability. My policy limits are $1 million liability and medical and $1 million personal and advertising liability. Colin Gilboy Publisher, 4specs.com 435.200.5775 - Utah 800.369.8008 Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 557 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:12 pm:    Are you asking about General Liability or Professional Liability? Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1153 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:16 pm:    Both I guess. Being an architect if I have insurance I must have E & O - which now the client says he thought I had even though I am not signing and sealing any work. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1154 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:19 pm:    Florida law does not allow two architect's seals on the contract documents. I am not sealing the specifications, so why do I need E & O insurance, this is what I don't understand. I think I will retain my role as sub-consultant for the architect, trying to work directly for an Owner is too hard and too expensive. Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 258 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 04:07 pm:    I did not carry insurance for a number of years until one of my clients (an Architect) required it of all the sub-consultants. Because I'm not a registered Architect or Engineer it took a while to convince the insurance company that a Specifier was a legit profession; They really had a hard time trying to catalog what I did. Ended up being covered under a Specialty Construction Consultant's Professional Liability Insurance. Still costs me an arm and a leg. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 678 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 05:56 pm:    You need to be clear on the differences between general liability and professional liability insurance. Even though you do not sign the documents you are probably exercising professional judgment related to the selection and specification of products. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 756 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2014 - 08:27 am:    I rent an office, and my landlord requires this. I have had clients request that I have insurance, but have not been threatened with cancellation. Ypif you work out of your home, you may be adequately covered or you may get covered (for business activities) with a very modest premium increase. "Professional liability insurance" is problematic, but everyone should have general liability insurance. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1156 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2014 - 12:05 pm:    As an update, I lost the job and the client, even though they executed the agreement, they did not read it, they assumed because I was an architect I had professional liability insurance and they would not pay for it...lesson learned is to either stop calling myself an architect or sending a separate letter to a prospective client advising them I don't have E & O Insurance, because it is clearly stated in my agreement. Thanks for all the input guys and gals, much appreciated. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 144 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2014 - 12:29 pm:    A general liability policy is advisable for any business as part of a business owner's policy (BOP). These are inexpensive policies that cover a variety of risks to which just about every business is exposed. They are available for home-based businesses to augment a homeowner's policy which would typically exclude business-related risks. Professional liability insurance is available for independent specifications consultants. Even if you believe the liability for design decisions is effectively assumed by your client who is the design professional, a consultant is liable for providing accurate and complete services in whatever form you have agreed upon. There is potential liability to the specifier regardless of language in your agreement that might attempt to assign responsibility to other parties including your client. I therefore consider it imprudent to practice without professional liability coverage. Although more costly than general liability, a $500K policy should cost between 1% and 2% of gross revenue. Although I have never had a claim in 25+ years of practice, it gives me peace of mind. This coverage is also req'd by most of my clients. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 558 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2014 - 12:36 pm:    Curious if any independent, NON-Architects would be willing to forward their insurance agent contact info for Professional insurance? Robin@spectraspecs.com Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 02:42 pm:    An office is an office, whether home or leased/rented space in a building; if mfr rep visits my home office and trips and falls and is injured, my GL provides coverage; my GL also provides coverage for fire, theft, etc. for business contents, something that personal policies likely exclude. Many of my A/E clients pursue projects that typically "flow-down" their contract provisions to sub-consultants; unfortunately, such was primarily intended for design engineers, it also "captures" any others, like specifiers. And GL is typically a requirement with higher auto limits that one generally has personally. I ended-up getting what's termed a BOP (business owner's package) that includes GL but also my business' non-owned (my personal) auto for higher limits. I've also had prof liab since "day one"...so I can "sleep at nights" knowing that personal assets are at less risk. I'm curious of those who don't have prof liab, what types of indemnity provisions do you agree to...or do you even read/realize what types of indemnity you are agreeing to? anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2014 - 11:01 pm:    I always wonder when this conversation comes up, if any professional liability claims will be considered payable by an insurance company in the case of when a specifier has paid for this policy and is not a design professional. Wouldn't the insurance company just say, my client in this case does not have any professional responsibility so we do not have to pay? Sure they will sell such a policy. They will gladly take the money and run! When it comes time to pay, it could be a different story? Has anyone here heard of a company ever paying for a claim involving a specifier? Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 145 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 09:58 am:    Coverage for professional liability is not directly related to the policy holder's status as a registered design professional. The policy I carry is under the insurer's “Construction, Technical and Planning Consultants Program” for which professional registration is not a prerequisite. Although I don't have specific claim experience, I am satisfied that the insurance company understands my role in the process and has written the policy accordingly. There are professional obligations and liabilities beyond "design" responsibilities, and a specifications consultant has exposure in providing professional services other than design services. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 12:59 pm:    I'm not "registered" nor "licensed" but anyone can make a claim against anyone on the design team for any reason...the shotgun effect? One A/E client lists my complete contact info on dwg cover sheet...along with other engineering consultants, so I'm there for anyone/everyone to see/know. With no deductible, and pre-claim assistance, I'm getting insurance company's expertise/help upfront, as part of the policy coverage. Besides, as I previously indicated, many of my clients are pursuing projects where Owner (usually a public entity) is requiring PLI as a flow-down requirement applicable to A/E's subconsultants...and it's not that expensive...just part of the cost of doing business.