Learn from your mistakes

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Author Message J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 611 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 08:55 am:    Most of you have probably heard about the new London skyscraper with a curved facade that focuses the sun's rays onto the street below (see http://therealdeal.com/blog/2013/09/03/rafael-vinoly-no-stranger-to-fryscrapers/). You may also remember a Las Vegas hotel with a similar problem. Turns out they were designed by the same firm. And I thought the very nature of practice was learning from your mistakes. I still say there is a potential student competition here to design a solar energy recovery system. Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 204 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 09:36 am:    Ha! I wonder when the respective designs were completed? Sometimes projects sit unbuilt for years after being designed. Personally I prefer to learn from the mistakes of others. Less painful. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 678 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 09:39 am:    If only the sun would trace a regular and predictable path across the heavens, then architects wouldn’t face this annoying problem. Perhaps a wizard in a future generation will invent some sort of computing engine that will be able to figure out how the sun reflects off glass. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 679 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 09:52 am:    "The architect should be equipped with knowledge of many branches of study and varied kinds of learning, for it is by his judgement that all work done by the other arts is put to test. ... Let him be educated, skilful with the pencil, instructed in geometry, ... Geometry, also, is of much assistance in architecture, and in particular it teaches us the use of the rule and compasses, by which especially we acquire readiness in making plans for buildings in their grounds, and rightly apply the square, the level, and the plummet. By means of optics, again, the light in buildings can be drawn from fixed quarters of the sky." Vitruvius, ~15 BC. And by geometry and optics also, light can be focused onto unsuspecting passersby. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 472 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 10:02 am:    And if lawyers are involved, the architect may get burned also. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 680 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 10:15 am:    In this case, that may be appropriate, lawyers or not. John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 662 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 10:15 am:    I, for one, don't make no mistakes. Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1424 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 10:56 am:    Looks like you just made one, John, with that last posting!!! Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 603 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 11:11 am:    Don't forget the curved stainless steel facade on the Disney Concert Hall in LA. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1690 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 11:13 am:    I thought I made a mistake once, but I was mistaken. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 680 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 11:20 am:    I sent the link to my wife and she replied with this story: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/02/arts/design/renzo-pianos-nasher-museum-in-dallas-has-sunburn-problem.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1& ...and I once made two mispelling misstakes in the same sentence. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 663 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 11:55 am:    Ralph: You're mistaken. I made two mistakes (think grammar). J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 612 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 02:33 pm:    The link is interesting, but this project and the Disney project in LA don't focus the sun's solar energy like the concave facades of the Las Vegas and London projects do. I do find the comments from the Museum Tower's architect to be a bit naive. Of course he has responsibility for the impact of his design on the environment. It is a little like saying "I don't have to worry about what happens to the rain water that doesn't permeate into the ground now that I have paved over 90% of my 20 acre site." or "I have enough parking; I don't have to consider the impact my project will have on the traffic in the neighborhood streets." I hope, for his sake, he was quoted out of context. I am not saying that it is easy to consider every impact that every design has on its neighbors, but large project should have this as a part of their basic design consideration (even when their client might not be on board). Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 681 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 05:01 pm:    It's not rocket science - concave surfaces can concentrate light - but it's nice to have a 10,000 word article say the same thing. "In a study published last summer in the European Journal of Physics (EJP), two researchers from Germany performed a number of experiments that gave an in-depth explanation of why some skyscrapers have these undesired effects." http://bit.ly/15Hc20A Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1692 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 05:16 pm:    I saw an article in our local paper last night wherein someone claimed the building in London had melted part of his Jaguar...(the car, that is) Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1373 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, September 06, 2013 - 01:41 pm:    yes, and who knew that Jaguars had plastic parts? (which is what was melted). I agree with Peter that to ignore the possible effects of curved glass is hopelessly naive -- especially because these issues have gotten so much popular press. The first time this happens, we can perhaps give the designer a pass, but if this happens every two or three years (as it seems to) then someone on the architect's staff isn't reading the popular press. (I would never assume that an architect do such a thing). As George and Sheldon both pointed out -- these things are somewhat predicable. You simply have to ask the right questions. Alan Mays, AIA Senior Member Username: amays Post Number: 138 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Friday, September 06, 2013 - 01:59 pm:    Anne, they catch fire also: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/21/dick-van-dyke-escapes-flaming-jaguar-highway-101/ Hmmm. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 609 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, September 06, 2013 - 02:12 pm:    I wonder if Dick Van Dyke will buy another Jag? J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 614 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 08:43 am:    The architect responds http://www.dezeen.com/2013/09/06/we-made-a-lot-of-mistakes-with-this-building-says-walkie-scorchie-architect-vinoly/ Is it just me or does this sound like a "dog ate my homework" excuse? I am embarrassed by this architect's attempts to she'd responsibility for his work. This guy probably uses unpaid interns and tells people that his firm can't be profitable without free labor. Justatim Senior Member Username: justatim Post Number: 53 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 07:38 am:    This also happened to a Frank Gehry building. http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p211/rllbrite/Lou_Ruvo_1400.jpg Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 238 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 08:00 am:    I've never figured out how anyone can build something like that or even work/live in it. Guess it is supposed to be "art"? Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 684 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 09:12 am:    Does it leak, too? ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 595 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 02:03 pm:    Didn't Ford buy Jaguar? Jags used to use real wood. Guess that would have caught fire too. Alan Mays, AIA Senior Member Username: amays Post Number: 140 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 02:16 pm:    Ford sold it to Tata right before or during the recession. It is officially an Indian motor car. I still think they are built in England, though. Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 543 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 02:22 pm:    Correct. Jag and Landrover were sold to Tata, who then pumped a few billion into R&D and have launched several new Jag's and the new Range Rover and Range Rover Sport, plus the Evoque, all still built in England. Other than loosing their Best4x4xFar heritage, TATA seems to be doing well with the brands. I will allow that Land Rover did send a trio of LR4's across the Trans-American Trail recently though. Nothing like the Camel Trophy events of the past, but at least it was mostly dirt road.... Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1375 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 05:08 pm:    Peter, et al: if Vinoly is anything like Gehry, an unpaid person doesn't even walk through the front lobby. The high profile firms are pretty aware how high profile they are, and they don't do things that are easy shots for the disapproving press. (they save that for their designs). As for the melted building, I worked on Ruvo, and the owner is delighted with it; it has made a ton of money for his foundation -- which was part of the program -- and the publicized part that you see is only an entry/reception pavilion, not the whole building. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lou_Ruvo_Center_-_2010-12-10_-_North.JPG This is the north (clinical entry) side of the project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lou_Ruvo_Center_-_West_-_2010-12-10.JPG this is the west side, where you can see how the folded part is attached to the "regular" part of the building. hard to say if a building in Las Vegas leaks, but under the metal panels is a 60 mil EPDM membrane with welded seams over the entire surface; the stucco is 1" thick (with two drainage lines) and stiffened to l/680 to resist local winds; and the roof is a Hydrotech membrane with pavers over the entire surface. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 610 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 01:18 pm:    I have to agree with Anne's statement about "high-end" firms. I "grew up" in one, and we had our share of criticisim, some warranted, some not. It is to be expected when you are on the "leading edge" of Design. However, the Firm's Design Partener did win the AIA 25 Year Award, the AIA Gold Medal and the Pritzger Prize, to name a few. Robert E. Woodburn Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 02:50 pm:    The trifecta...