Do you all know that you're quoted he...

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Author Message Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 76 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 07:37 pm:    Do you all know that you're quoted here? This is weird. http://www.cspecs.com/collaborative-specification I think that these quotes were lifted from this forum. Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 471 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 07:41 pm:    Darn! I didn't make the cut. Clearly, I need to work on writing in 1 part sound bite format. How else am I going to get famous for being well known? Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 530 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 07:45 pm:    That's okay Nathan, I didn't make the cut either. That being said, this is a public forum, so I guess we better be more careful what we say, especially if another organization is going to grab it and use it in an ad for their product. Insn't that what cspecs is doing? Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 366 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 07:53 pm:    They do include something with my name under it, but I am certain that I didn't write it (because I have never revised a manufacturer's spec as I seem to be saying). Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 08:31 pm:    Steven, you're right - Anne said it, not you, in this forum http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/23/4896.html?1297867529 Someone called me today, about something different, and wanted me to look at the cspecs.com website, and I saw these quotes, and it felt as if cspecs was using your names to sell something, and it felt weird. Alan Mays, AIA Senior Member Username: amays Post Number: 103 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 08:52 pm:    One thing that you should do if you are employed by an architectural firm is talk with your legal counsel. If you have not ever worked with these people, there could be a implied connection. With that said, this just isn't the right way to market their product. They should have contacted each individual person and asked for permission. Colin, this might also affect you, too. As operator of the forum, they are pulling advertising quotes from your forum. I am assuming that they have permission to do so? As for me personally, I would like them to ask me for my permission to use it and if not then I would ask them to remove it. It is like you are endorsing their product. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 367 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 09:08 pm:    Liz, this is fun! When I went over the old thread you linked there is a post by me but they quote it as being by "Richard Howard". Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 78 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 09:15 pm:    Ha! Well, I'm not sure it'll be that fun for everyone. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 425 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 11:56 pm:    Colin: Do you own the rights to whatever is posted on this forum, or does each poster retain the rights to their own posting? Taking another person's qoutes without that person's permission is likely copyright infringement (unless it falls under fair use, which doesn't include marketing). (Disclaimer: This statement is not to intended to provide legal advice) Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 368 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:48 am:    Liz, Yes I agree. Solving the mystery of quotes disconnected from the names the are attributed to was fun, but this is a problem. Perhaps they intentionally gave the wrong name for every quote thinking that the perfect defense is "Your honor, My client is innocent due to mental incapacity. My client is not capable of being responsible for their own actions" Perhaps we can collaborate on a @specs "cease and desist" form letter? Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 313 Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 09:18 am:    Robin, I do not have any terms of service on the forum. Here is a link to an article discussing this - "Who owns forum posts?" http://www.forumdr.com/who-owns-forum-posts/67/ I personally take the position that karma will clear up the problem. I think a specifier after seeing this thread will not recommend CSpecs to a manufacturer. I have yet to have a manufacturer ask me about CSpecs. I looked at the page and decided to let it be. If an individual wants to request removal, ask and see what happens. Colin Gilboy Publisher, 4specs.com 435.654.5775 - Utah 800.369.8008 Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1540 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 09:59 am:    I just sent a message asking to be either removed or to be contacted to request permission. We'll see what happens. I pointed out that the quote was obviously copied from another source. I have no problem being quoted; I make sure that what I state in a public forum is what I believe and will stand up to scrutiny and I will stand behind what I write or say. But, I think they do not have the right to copy and re-post as if I am endorsing their service. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 637 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 10:10 am:    Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him, And makes me poor indeed. (....and you can quote me on that) George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 586 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 10:12 am:    If you make a public statement, which a forum post is, does someone else need permission to quote it? Forum users quote each other and other sources frequently, apparently without permission. Gee, I was quoted three times! Actually, quoted once and erroneously quoted twice. One of my supposed quotes was made by another forum member, and my name appeared with the post that followed. If you're going to quote someone, get it right! Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1542 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 10:39 am:    Sheldon, you're right; so is George. It's not the quote I'm objecting to, it's the implication that I endorse cspecs. If they would have put the quotes in context, stating that they had been copied from another source, based on the topic of manufacturer's specs - or whatever - I'd also have less objection. But they did neither. Perhaps I would endorse their service, but I was not given the option to say yea or nay. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 426 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 10:41 am:    @Sheldon - internet law is (as you can imagine) constantly evolving. But, generally, a person owns the rights to their own comments and quotes. The law is full of exceptions, one of which is "fair use". So, if someone is quoting someone else without permission for purposes of education, they can argue that it falls under fair use and is not copyright infringment. The fact that it is a public forum typically doesn't matter. For example, if i create a statue on a public street, the fact that it is created in a public forum does not mean i automatically abdicate my rights to that work (there are, of course, some exceptions such as people being allowed to photograph it etc). On a public forum, either the forum host (IE, Colin) owns the quotes if it is stated as such in the terms of service, or the original author owns the rights. On 4specs, the original author owns the rights and it appears Cspecs is using the quotes for commercial gain (not "fair use"). That said, it is a different discussion whether the authors of these quotes care that cspecs is using them without permission. (not intended as legal advice) Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 866 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:18 pm:    hmmmm never heard of cspecs I've not been quoted I guess I don't rate either but than again I'm just a pion I know there is an especs and a bspecs and of course 4specs... seems like ispecs has not be snapped up yet and mrspecs is for the other kind of specs wonder if there is a zzzspecs? Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1543 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:20 pm:    zzzspecs only exists at 3 am (or other time) when all spec writers are asleep... Melissa J. Aguiar, CSI, CCS, SCIP Senior Member Username: melissaaguiar Post Number: 162 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:22 pm:    or gotchaspecs.... zzzspecs...lol! Melissa J. Aguiar, CSI, CCS, SCIP Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 531 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:24 pm:    Is someone implying that our specs put people to sleep? Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 867 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:29 pm:    as incentive to get my clients to read the specs, I remind them that if they take a copy to bed with them, they will never suffer from insomnia Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1544 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:37 pm:    Specs don't put people to sleep, reading specs put people to sleep...unless one uses the project manual to bop someone over the head. Then specs would be used to put someone to "sleep"... Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 868 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:38 pm:    Lynn, lately at 3am I'm just finding the time to read posts, this of coursze is very bad for my health, and even worse for snappy comebacks. Please don't assume the zzzzzspecs is due to this being a slow day, aucontraire, we are all just sitting around taking bets here in South Florida on whether or not the current tropical storm washes out the republican convention next week, being a democrat I can only hope, but than again knowing how bad hurricanes can be on Florida lifestyle, I'd like to see you folks in Texas get some rain. I think I should change my user name to zzzspecs Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1545 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:41 pm:    Other than the impact on the South Florida economy with the influx of all those rich Republicans who will be spending gobs of money, does the convention really mean anything? The candidates have been chosen/decided, so what's left to do? Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 869 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:41 pm:    some years ago I started a thread on top 10 uses for a project manual, door stops, step stool, sleep aid, were just a few much better uses for printed specs, perhaps I should find that post...zzzspecs Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1546 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:47 pm:    With the addition of a strap, a project manual would make a great cosh! And no one would know why you were carrying it. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 870 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 12:49 pm:    I was hoping they might consider a human sacrifice, perhaps Akin would be a viable candidate? isn't akin something you do after working in the yard or putting up hurricane shutters? wasn't there an Ameican Idol named akin or was it a Jamaican rap singer? I've not really that much of a politico follower, just right my specs, collect the big fees on time without argument, and hope that there will be some money left in Social Security when I reach Ralph's age. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzspecs Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 871 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 01:05 pm:    Lynn, so I googled cosh, I remain confused, even though this may not be the place for this, but what in god's name is a cosh? I think this stimulating conversation deserves a nap...zzzspecs at 5am, TS Issac was looking to directly hit Homestead, by 11am it looked like an Everglades hit, we will see what happens at 2pm, but it seems to be tracking to the west, we down here have our fingers crossed, we'd really like to see Texas get this rain. However we all know how unpredictable storms are, could hit anywhere, 20 years ago on Friday, August 24, 1992 Hurricane Andrew annilated South Florida, we all know it could happen again and many of us are much better prepared, but hurricanes are scarier than hell and impossible to predict. Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1336 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 01:06 pm:    Nice to be remembered, even if in a rather shady posting Good gracious,Jerome, you DO NNNEEEEDDDDD sleep! Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 872 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 01:09 pm:    Ralph one of the advantages of being self employed is that I can take a nap whenever I please, preferrably not while driving a vehicle or meeting with a client...power naps rule!!! zzzspecs Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1547 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 01:09 pm:    "Cosh" is most likely British slang (I read a lot of British novels) for billy club, blackjack, or whatever you'd use to hit someone. Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1337 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 02:38 pm:    Now, we finally have a new name for the outmoded and archaic, "Project Manual". Anonymous (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 11:56 pm:    Who here has heard of Ken Hall? Looks like he is the brainz behind cspecs. http://www.cspecs.com/cspecnews/67 If it is the "Holy Grail" I can't wait. We can reduce change orders by 75 percent. ;) I don't see much substance here. A lot of unbacked statistics, empty pages, some typos, and a broken link. Yep I'm quoted too, and nope this is not legal adivce either, therefore the anon. So than I would go to Lazzzzzarspecs or zzzspecs for product research 1st if there was one...go for it Jerome! Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 427 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2012 - 11:56 am:    i guess i could start posting as "anon" as well and avoid the legal disclaimer. Anonymous (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2012 - 12:16 pm:    Everyone could post as Anonymous, thus avoid being quoted or misqouted. Peggy White, CSI, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: peggy Post Number: 43 Registered: 07-2007 Posted on Friday, August 24, 2012 - 12:39 am:    In looking at their website I don't recognize any of the names - does anyone know them? From their home page: "National Institute Protocol Initiative - a Specifier Led Industry Industry Initiative" Mildly amusing, but creepy that they are quoting (and mis-quoting) actual Specifiers without their permission. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1551 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, August 24, 2012 - 09:42 am:    I have now left a voice mail message on Mr. Hall's phone stating my objection to the post and requesting that he call me. Nothing to report so far... Ann Baker, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP, SCIP Affiliate (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 06:38 pm:    Wow. This is fascinating. It will be interesting to hear if you hear, Lynn. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 484 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 07:32 am:    I just read a post on Twitter that was related. See https://twitter.com/lizmale/status/240403871531409408 Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1552 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 10:14 am:    So far, nothing. But I'll definitely let y'all know! Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 135 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:07 pm:    OK I just clicked the link and it comes up with "Whoops! The page could not be found. Try giving it another chance below." Now I'll never know if I was "famous" or not!! Ride it like you stole it!!! Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1553 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:21 pm:    Paul, which link? The one at the top? "Cause that just worked for me... Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 136 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:22 pm:    Yes, the one Liz originally posted Ride it like you stole it!!! Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 137 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:33 pm:    Actually half of the links on the site are dead when I click them! Maybe they have something against Canadians? LOL Ride it like you stole it!!! Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1554 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:41 pm:    Here's one link that opens a survey they performed - or so they state: http://www.cspecs.com/industry-research It must be something like that, Paul. Because I'm getting around the site OK. Maybe it's because I've been mis-quoted and have some sort of "celebrity" status on the site? Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 138 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 03:02 pm:    That's another dead link for me. Got same error as when I clicked Liz's original link, or when I chose that link from their website. Ride it like you stole it!!! ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 330 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2012 - 01:16 pm:    Paul, try it without the extra u's. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1558 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2012 - 01:59 pm:    Contacted them again, pasting the "quote" from their site and requesting that they remove it. This time I sent it to "billing". Perhaps if everyone on the site were to request the same thing, we'd get some action? (There is no way to virtually picket, is there?) Next, I think I'll submit a bill for the mis-use of intellectual property...or some such. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1283 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 01:23 am:    And frankly, I never said what they said either. I NEVER (that's NEVER) use manufacturer's specs, don't think they are worth the paper they are printed on, and am pretty sure I didn't say anything else they said I said. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1586 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2012 - 09:48 am:    And since we would most likely be downloading manufacturer's specs, so there'd be zero paper involved, that's what they're worth - zero. Well stated, Anne!