| Author |
Message |
Liz O'Sullivan
Intermediate Member
Username: liz_osullivan
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 11:08 am: |    |
Another thing I'd like to blog about but can't, because it's too sensitive. On a negotiated contract with contractor predesign services, the construction documents pricing came in 22 percent higher than "previous pricing." This was a negotiated contract, but with no GMP requirement. (This is a new one for me - anyone else have architect-clients or in-house project architects who have ever done this? This architect will probably never do that again. We all learn somehow.) In the VE process, which I'd been kept out of the loop on until recently, one of the line items is "Delete Preconstruction Services." It's an appropriate remedy at this point, but sad. |
Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 405
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 11:25 am: | |
More than likely, that is a negotiated item. It doesn't mean predesign services are not going to happen, it just means the GC is not getting an additional fee for them. Instead, he will make it up in change orders resulting from misguided VE decisions that are not thouroughly vetted out |
Liz O'Sullivan
Advanced Member
Username: liz_osullivan
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 12:05 pm: | |
Nathan, predesign is over. The preconstruction services that the contractor had a contract with the owner to provide DIDN'T happen. (Which is only apparent now.) The documents went in for permit and out to bid to subs and pricing came in 22% higher than expected. So, retroactively, they're deducting their preconstruction fee, as a "value-engineering" line item.
The owner would have been much better served had the contractor actually provided the predesign services he was contracted for, rather than refunding the owner, and canceling the preconstruction services AFTER documents are in for permit. Sad. |
Dave Metzger
Senior Member
Username: davemetzger
Post Number: 408
Registered: 07-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 12:05 pm: | |
"Value engineering" is the most misused term in the construction industry.
True VE is a rigorous process that starts early in the design phases, preferably using people who are specifically trained in VE. In practice, what most people call "value engineering" is just cost-cutting. |
Liz O'Sullivan
Senior Member
Username: liz_osullivan
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 12:11 pm: | |
Of course, Dave is right. |
J. Oeter Jordan (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 01:17 pm: | |
Especially when VE is conducted after pricing, this is really nothing more than substitution requests and should be regarded as such. |
J. Peter Jordan (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 11:59 am: | |
I'm confused. You got a price on construction documents but also got a VE item to delete preconstruction services. Aren't preconstruction serices provided before CDs go out for pricing?
This has happened on a few projects in which I have been involved usually with GCs who think hanging out a sign that says CM makes them one, but sometimes with GCs who ought to know better. More often, the GC (or more appropriately the CM-at-Risk) has participated in the CD phase and been consulted on design decisions with cost implications.
They (the GCs don't know near what they think they do, but they are better positioned to provide helpful information if they are given an opportunity to participate and take it. |
Liz O'Sullivan
Senior Member
Username: liz_osullivan
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 02:17 pm: | |
Yep. The contracted preconstruction services apparently weren't really performed, and with a 22 percent budget bust at 100 percent CD's, now that's become obvious. (There were no scope or design changes between 100 percent DD, when previous pricing exercises were conducted, and 100 percent CD.) Now the contractor and architect are working on cost-cutting, and the contractor has "generously" offered to deduct the preconstruction fee.
Dave Metzger, thanks for inspiring my upcoming brief blog post on "value engineering." www.lizosullivanaia.wordpress.com |
Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 406
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 04:50 pm: | |
"...Now the contractor and architect are working on
cost-cutting..."
I hate that. The Architect typically has to perform these VE excersises for free, and all it does increase the architects risk and potential for liability. |
Liz O'Sullivan
Senior Member
Username: liz_osullivan
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 05:29 pm: | |
Yes, the Architect's agreement on this project obligates them to do this for free. My Architect-Consultant agreement on this project doesn't obligate me to do this for free. Some of my architect-clients are savvy enough to strike this typical provision from the AIA Owner-Architect agreement when there's a contractor on-board during design, and some of my architect-clients aren't. |
4specs.com Home Page