Any wine makers out there?

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Author Message Tracy Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 316 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2011 - 10:39 am:    Since this is the designated spot for chit chat ... I tried a chocolate raspberry port at a local wine cellar where you can 'make your own wine', but it was made using a 'kit' as the basis with us adding a few ingredients and then it sits at the wine cellar to ferment before we bottle it. Anyway, I'd like to try to make it myself but can't seem to find any kind of recipe that you can make from scratch (i.e., no kit). Just wondering if anyone out there in 4Specs-land might have some suggestions on how to come up with a similar recipe. Tracy L. Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 57 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2011 - 04:23 pm:    *Adjusts glasses accordingly and begins speaking like a cork dork* The process of making Port is a little different than making a traditional table wine. When Port is made, the grapes are crushed and destemmed and the primary fermentation is started in the traditional way. At approximately 50% through primary fermentation, alcohol is added which, in effect kills the primary fermentation yeast and arrests the fermentation process (most wine yeast can't survive in an environment above 14% alcohol by volume...some even less than that). This achieves the sweetness that Port has, as it retains the remaining residual sugar that is usually consumed by the yeast. Once all of the sugar in the must is consumed then the fermentation yeast die naturally, resulting in a "fermentation to dry". This is also the reason why most Port has an alcohol content of approximately 20% by volume. The challenge with Port is having the facilities to do what happens next, and of course the patience to let it happen. At this point the Port is usually put into oak barrels. Usually Port barrels are nearing the end of their service life as oak flavours are not as predominant as they are with table wine. This barrel aging allows the wine and alcohol to "marry" and mellow over time. Time is the primary reason for the marrying, but the oak also allows for the same micro-oxidation (that happens with any wine aged in barrels)to help soften and round out the tannins...taking off the rough edges. The wine-making club I belong to (which has been in existance for 30+ years and has equipment such as a crusher/destemmer, press and numerous 225L barrels which we use for "club projects" that people buy into and also invest sweat equity) made a club project barrel of Port about 6 years ago (it came out of the barrel the year after I joined the club ). The project was in the barrel for almost 5 years. During the course of the project it was tweaked and additional wine added to add complexity and desired flavours. It is not a simple process, and gets even more finicky in smaller quantities. Even after a couple of years in the bottle it is drinking quite nicely, but will probably really come into its own in about 10 years or more. The most unfortunate part of this whole story is I couldn't convince anyone in the club to sell me even a portion of their share!! My suggestion would be to go the kit route, unless you are an experienced winemaker already. I have tasted some very nice kit Ports and if I was going to do one on my own, this is probably the route I would go (although I may do some other things with it as well to improve on the result). Ride it like you stole it!!! Tracy Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 317 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 08:50 am:    Very good input, thanks, Paul!!! I gotta tell you, after tasting the chocolate raspberry port at the wine cellar where we 'made' ours (its fermenting right now) ... I don't know if I'd sell you any either. My friend and I who went together to do the wine making/sharing the cost about swooned when we tried it, lol. A friend of mine who has made what he calls 'garden' wines in the past (like tomato and watermelon) has said he'd help me get started making my own but it would be no where near the production like you're talking. Do kits have a shelf life? Tracy L. Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 58 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 09:32 am:    Every wine has a shelf life, which is dependent on a number of things: - quality of fruit used (or quality of wine kit used...I wouldn't make anything less than the 16 or 18L premium or ultra-premium kits...my dad has a neighbour that makes the 7.5L kits and it is PLONK, so bad that I can barely get through a glass) - sanitation in the winery (basement, garage, U-brew facility) - protection against oxygen during fermentation and up to time of bottling (not the micro-oxygenation that happens in the barrel) - sulphite levels at the time of bottling - quality of closure (i.e. corks) If care and fastidiousness if taken during the process, there is no reason why a kit can't have a bottle life of 4 or 5 years. In fact most of the premium/ultra-premium kits recommend you leave the wine 6 to 12 months after you bottle them. One of the "senior" members of my wine-making club regularly brings out bottles of 92 or 93 Chardonnay, 83 or 84 Syrah or Cab blends and last month served a 1975 Bordeaux Cru Classee commercial wine. I am still trying to convince my sweetie that the term "patient wine drinker" is not an oxymoron. She was ready to uncork the bottle of 2005 Amarone I bought for her for her birthday last year. When I told her it needs to lay down for at least 5 years she said "so you're giving me a nice bottle of wine for my birthday that I can't open for FIVE years?!?!?!?!?!". I said yup, at least. Ride it like you stole it!!! Ellis C. Whitby, AIA, PE, CSI, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 94 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 09:53 am:    Paul; I think the lesson you should “take home” is to get your “sweetie” two bottles next year: one for immediate consumption, and one to lay down for the future. Preferably, of course, the presentation of the bottles should be made while on a cruise in the South Pacific. Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 60 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 10:16 am:    LOL @ cruise in the South Pacific. We are actually down to single digit sleeps until we leave for our cruise in the Eastern Caribbean!!! Ride it like you stole it!!! Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1187 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 01:07 pm:    Paul, Thanks for all the information. I've only made fruit wines (grape and one pretty awful apricot), so reading about the Port was very interesting. I don't think I'll be trying it until I retire, though. It sounds waay too time-consuming and attention-grabbing for me right now. Enjoy your cruise. Ellis C. Whitby, AIA, PE, CSI, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 95 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 04:44 pm:    Have fun on the cruise. My “sweetie” has wanted to do a cruise for years, but we cannot agree on a destination: I favor a cruise to Antarctica, while she favors somewhat warmer climes. Regarding wine making, I remember a friend in college who bought a wine making kit (this would be about 1970 or so): the wine was terrible (operator error perhaps). Gary (my friend) then decided that since he had invested so much time and money that he could not just throw away the wine. He proceeded to build a still to make brandy from the wine. I remember that the condensing coils were run out of his window into the Pennsylvania winter. The end result was really bad brandy, which perhaps should have been no surprise. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1188 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 05:24 pm:    Maybe you could convince her to cruise to Alaska? It gets quite warm there in the summer, but there are still glaciers to see...and from what I understand, the ships have good brandy. Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 62 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 01:14 pm:    Ellis - maybe the lesson you should "take home" is to plan 2 cruises...one to warmer climes and then one to Antarctica...that way its a win-win ;). As far as the 2 bottles of wine is concerned, it would still be "infanticide" to open a bottle of 2005 Amarone now, regardless of whether there is another bottle laying down. Why ruin what will be a much better drinking bottle of wine in 5, 10 or 15 years by opening it well before it comes into its own? Lynn - I think you are the first person I know who has ever lumped wine made from grapes into the "fruit wine" category! LOL...but I understand what you meant, I think. Apricot is definitely a fruit wine, as are apple, pear, plum etc. I made blending wines this past fall (Petit Verdot, Petite Syrah, Carignan and Grenache), which will go into Bordeaux and Rhone blends in the future. In the spring I am planning on making some Argentinian Malbec (part of which will also be used for Bordeaux blends). I am also planning on making some cassis (black currant) and mead (honey) in the near future. Ride it like you stole it!!! Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1190 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 03:20 pm:    Even tomatoes are technically fruit. I don't think I've ever even heard of vegetable wines (have you tried the Brussels sprout '89? Quite nutty). One of my CSI colleagues, Dave Brandt, is a wine-maker. I should send this thread to him. Tracy Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 318 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 10:42 am:    I found a recipe for cinnamon wine ... so what would that be classed as? Didn't Hercule Poirot like cassis? Tracy L. Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1202 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 01:29 pm:    According to Wikipedia: Crème de cassis is a blood-red, sweet, blackcurrant flavored liqueur, and is an ingredient of kir, an apéritif. The modern version of the drink first appeared in the Burgundy region in 1841, displacing "ratafia de cassis" from prior centuries. It is made from blackcurrants crushed into refined alcohol, with sugar subsequently added. While crème de cassis is a specialty of Burgundy, it is made in other cities of France, as well as in Luxembourg and Quebec. The quality of crème de cassis depends on the variety of fruit used as well as content of the berries and the fabrication process. With the label "Crème de Cassis de Dijon" one is guaranteed berries from the commune of Dijon. An Interprofessional Syndicate has tried since 1997 to obtain an "Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée" for "Crème de Cassis de Bourgogne" which would guarantee both the origin and variety of fruit, as well as the number of berries in the recipe used in the manufacture. Nearly 16 million litres of crème de cassis are produced annually, consumed mostly in France, but also exported.[citation needed] Several cocktails are made with crème de cassis, including Kir and the Super Snakey B. It is a favourite drink of the fictional detective Hercule Poirot by Agatha Christie.[1][2][3] Andy (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 06:12 pm:    Beer brewer here.