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Author Message Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1177 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2011 - 12:36 pm:    One little word can make all the difference: "If Contractor observes, uncovers, or otherwise discovers an abandoned pipe not shown on the Drawings or is not associated with a tank during construction, Contractor shall notify Owner Representative orally, followed by written confirmation." Take out that first "is" and you have a reasonable sentence. But with that "is", you have a Contractor not associating with a tank...and having to tell the Owner! George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 577 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2011 - 01:34 pm:    At least they used "orally" instead of "verbally". Both oral and written communications are verbal. It drives me crazy when people assume oral and verbal are interchangeable. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO Ron Beard CCS Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 366 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2011 - 03:17 pm:    "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." I seem to remember that from somewhere. "Fast is good, but accurate is better." .............Wyatt Earp Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1178 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2011 - 04:23 pm:    And wasn't there some sort of association in that instance, too? Richard Hird (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 10:39 am:    George; Very interesting to know, but does not your position make the word "verbal" a unnecessary redundancey. Could not think of an example; in spec spec that is. Brett M. Wilbur CSI, CCS, AIA Senior Member Username: brett Post Number: 198 Registered: 12-2004 Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 11:10 am:    OK, off on a tangent here but I once say a VE report from a contractor that recommended the use of "doobies under the floor slob". Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1179 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 11:19 am:    I highly recommend y'all join S.P.E.L.L. - the Society for the Preservation of English Language and Literature - http://www.spellorg.com/ - check it out. (Richard Lederer is a frequent contributor to the newsletter. He wrote "Pullet Surprises" and quite a few other delightful books.) Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: robert_w_johnson Post Number: 126 Registered: 03-2009 Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 12:12 pm:    Verbal versus oral from American Heritage Dictonary: —Usage note 3, 4. Verbal has had the meaning “spoken” since the late 16th century and is thus synonymous with oral: He wrote a memorandum to confirm the verbal agreement. Slightly earlier, verbal had developed the meaning “expressed in words, whether spoken or written (as opposed to actions)”: Verbal support is no help without money and supplies. Although some say that the use of verbal to mean “spoken” produces ambiguity, it rarely does so. Verbal is used in this sense in all varieties of speech and writing and is fully standard. The context usually makes the meaning clear: No documents are necessary; a verbal agreement (or contract or order ) will suffice. Oral can be used instead of verbal if the context demands: My lawyer insists on a written contract because oral agreements are too difficult to enforce. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 578 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 03:28 pm:    Thanks, Bob. I stand (figuratively, not literally) corrected, but not totally convinced. Too much reliance on altar boy Latin roots. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: robert_w_johnson Post Number: 127 Registered: 03-2009 Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 04:24 pm:    George Your comment got me thinking about whether I had been using that word incorrectly, so I did some research - that is what I found at a couple of sources. Always good to rethink something!!!! Education never ceases if you are thinking. Ellis C. Whitby, AIA, PE, CSI, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 89 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 05:11 pm:    George; Apropos of absolutely nothing, where does the phrase “I stand corrected” come from? For some reason, I have the impression that it is from the British parliament. Do you (or anyone) know? George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 579 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 08:26 pm:    I've always presumed it was parliamentary in origin (Robert's Rules or something similar), and always presumed the "standing" had nothing to do with posture. But, no, I don't know the origin. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies St. Louis, MO Ellis C. Whitby, AIA, PE, CSI, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 90 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 07:47 am:    I guess my search for knowledge has been thwarted again. I will admit that my family is extremely bored when I say “I sit corrected” Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1180 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 09:26 am:    I think the problem is in our narrow definition of "stand". It doesn't always mean a physical action, but can mean a state of being. To take a "stand" on an issue, for example, doesn't mean to plunk yourself on top of an idea or concept. If you look up the word in a dictionary, there are many meanings and connotations. Heck, if you just use your word processor's thesaurus, you get a list of about 3 dozen or so. Ellis C. Whitby, AIA, PE, CSI, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 91 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 09:55 am:    Good point. Although, while there are many synonyms for “stand”, "I poise corrected" does not have quite the same panache. :-) Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1181 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 09:59 am:    Ah, but "I survive corrected" has an additional emphasis... Doug Frank FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: doug_frank_ccs Post Number: 276 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 10:04 am:    personally, I can't "stand" to be corrected <grin> Doug Frank FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate FKP Architects, Inc. Houston, TX