| Author |
Message |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 219
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 08:15 pm: |    |
Anyone know a reputable product (or 2) that can be used in a commercial (cafe/bar) application? to adhere glass tile to an acrylic sheet substrate? I tried google'ing, but couldn't find anything that sounded right. |
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza
Post Number: 343
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 09:03 pm: | |
I wouldn't want to use an adhesive product that wasn't recommended by the glass tile manufacturer. I'd also want the adhesive tested for compatibility with the acrylic sheet - which might be problematic. |
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI
Senior Member
Username: rliebing
Post Number: 929
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 07:00 am: | |
Agree with Mr.Kabza, but also might try a mirror adhesive company to see if their material would work.
Try Palmer Products Company In Louisville, KY; [Mirro-Mastic, regular and Qwik-Set]; www.mirro-mastic.com
e-mail: palmer@mirro-mastic.com |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 763
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 09:46 am: | |
Have you checked with the glass tile manufacturer? And if not them, with some of the tile setting system manufacturers (Laticrete for example)?
Most glass tiles need to be set with white bonding coat or white adhesives or the color can change dramatically. Not just the grout, but the actual bonding material that you end up using. This is a major requirement, not just a nice suggestion, unless you have some of the few glass tiles where this does not matter.
Is there a particular reason why it needs to be backed up on an acrylic sheet substrate?
William |
Dale Roberts CSI, CCPR, CTC
Senior Member
Username: dale_roberts_csi
Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 10:25 am: | |
Hi Robin,
I am going to make a few assumptions. First this project is going to be back lit, so you want a clear adhesive so the light will show thru? This is a bar top or a wall application, no foot traffic? If both of these assumptions are correct, use 100% silicone. Not a siliconized acrylic. if you do not need a clear adhesive. Then you could possibly use an ANSI 118.4 mortar typically a white mortar with the highest polymer content (the most expensive) Custom Building Products MegaFlex, Mapei adesilex p10 or Laticrete 254 platinum. I do not think you will get any manufacture to warranty this project, as this substrate is difficult to bond to and has more movement than most acceptable substrates. |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 220
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:12 am: | |
Thanks! Dale - you are correct, it is backlit and is the front of the bar die. Do you have any recommendations for a 100% acrylic? My problem is that I am working w/ an interior designer who could care less how the products are installed - they just know what they want it to look like - so I am getting very little help from them. |
Dale Roberts CSI, CCPR, CTC
Senior Member
Username: dale_roberts_csi
Post Number: 64
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:30 am: | |
You are going outside the box on this installation, so you are going to face several challenges thru this project. You want a 100 % silicone. Try Tremco, Degussa, Dap, Polyseamseal. |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 221
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:37 am: | |
Welcome to my world! I have been pulling my hair out w/ some of these Interior Designers! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:39 am: | |
Isn't DeGussa now BASF?? If so, they don't have much of a web site for products. |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 764
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:47 am: | |
Robin,
I have seen backlit tiles in many design portfolios over the years. This is not going to be something that is uncommon to the tile manufacturer. They may even have a better suggestion of clear substrate to mount to than the acrylic, they may have something very specific about the use of silicone - full be under each tile to prevent a bubble effect showing through.
Frankly, I have found that where glass tiles are involved, the manufacturer's with the higher design look also had the better quality of technical information in their reps.
For instance, I had to design a 2 story exterior fin that tapered from 12 feet at the top to 6 feet at the bottom that was 8 inches thick. It was covered with a custom random pattern of blue and gold leaf glass tiles. The tiles were Italian. I got fantastic support from the tile manufacturer who had reps all over the country here (the actual install was in Huston, TX - and I am in DC...I worked with both of their reps as one was calling on our Dallas office that was doing the project. They even had great response for substrate suggestions. And even mounting the tiles since the main outboard edge of the fin was an angle to the grid of the tiles.
I still say, give a call to the tile manufacturer - and if you don't know them, or the contact information is not clear about who to call, the interior designer probably has a rep name for the person that brings samples into their offices. That's how I got to the technical rep for the glass tiles I was using.
If it turns out to be one of the major european glass tile manufacturers, backlit tiles are going to be nothing new to them at all.
William |
Melissa J. Aguiar, CSI, CCS, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: melissaaguiar
Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:48 am: | |
http://www.buildingsystems.basf.com/
I have not had a problem with getting DeGussa/Thoro/Sonoborn/etc. off the BASF website. Click on the acquired company icons at the bottom of the page and you shoulld get the up-to-date products they kept listed. Now, they have deleted a few here or there within each of the acquired manufacturers' so you will need to check to make sure everything you specify is up to date with BASF.
Hope it helps. |
Tomas Mejia, CCS, CCCA, LEED
Senior Member
Username: tmejia
Post Number: 47
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 12:32 pm: | |
You can also contact an acrylic sheet manufacturer.
http://www.tapplastics.com/ |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 222
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 12:45 pm: | |
Anyone familiar with Lexel?
http://www.sashcosealants.com/Home_Improvement/Lexel.aspx |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 02:16 pm: | |
Home Improvement product is scary!
ASTM compliance--?
Have mildew caulk that meets C834, but nothing for Lexel????
Call it "soft rubber"-what does that mean?????
May be another "too good to be true". but who knows?????
Other searches find it with good send-off as an adhesive, but............. |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 766
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 10:06 am: | |
Robin,
Is the entire 'mount it on acrylic' also from the interior designer? Have you looked at some of the systems for this kind of application. Back lighted stone and tiles are not uncommon, and there are some very nice systems out there.
GPI International...
http://www.gpidesign.com
specializes in mounting and backlighting very thin cut stones (not just onyx) and they also do tiles. They provide the panel and lighting as a system. They guarantee the application of the tiles to the substrate and the entire lighting system. Their preference is LED backlighting (newer technology than what some have thought of as LED back lighting).
I posed the question to them of mosaic glass tiles, and they immediately had a variety of solutions. The person I work with is the president of the company. Give them a holler,or an email (he answered my email in about 3 minutes this morning after I posed the question).
Thomas P. Lawrence | President
GPI International | GPI Design
Gripco Products, Incorporated
30400 Detroit Road | Suite 405
Westlake, Ohio 44145
Office: (440) 899.0400
Fax: (440) 899.0401
Cell: (440) 336-4373
Skype: tplawrence
Email: tom@gpidesign.com
Some of the applications you see on their web site have lots of space and major support systems, but they are big panels. They have worked in tight space like bar skirts and back panels as well.
This gets you around looking for pieces and parts that will have no more warranty related to them than your (or the designer's) liability and into a true system with an engineered solution and full warranty for the system complete.
William |
GPI Design (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 12:20 pm: | |
Hi all,
I have been forwarded the above thread, and would love to invite anyone considering using backlit stone, glass or other to visit our site www.gpidesign.com
We specialize in this field. Just this week we completed another Hyatt Feature Bar using DURA-Lite back lit onyx with LED FLAT-Lite panels. Pictures will be on the site next week.
Robin, I will attempt to call you today to further discuss some ideas I have to get your challanges addressed. We can help. Or ring me on my mobile phone when you have a moment - (440) 336-4373
Hope to talk with you soon,
Tom |
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