How do I specify Ipe wood?

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Author Message David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1114 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 07:29 pm:    I need to specify Ipe for exterior wood siding. I can't seem to find any grading agencies for this wood. Also, it seems that Ipe is a general classification for many different species of similar wood. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 07:47 pm:    with a large stick of Ironwoood ;) Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 192 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 10:01 pm:    I used IPE wood for some special wood work on a project recently and when I went back to look at my spec, realised there wasn't much there. Upon googling it I found this site http://www.woodsthebest.com/ipe_decking/ipe-wood.htm. It looks pretty comprehensive and there were some good links there. You might try there. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1115 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 01:17 pm:    Thanks Margaret I saw that pager earlier but it does not contain any information on grading standards. My concern is that without grading standards that any species of tropical hardwood could be called "Ipe". Therefore, rain forests in Brazil's Amazon could be logged for mahogany and lumber could be marketed as "sustainable" Ipe. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1097 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 02:10 pm:    Bear Creek Lumber lists: # Clear - Among the top quality grades available, BCL only procures clears grades of Ipe lumber. Please note that the color of this sample may vary according to your monitor's settings. # Better - Occasionally we are able to secure shipments of lower grade Ipe, please inquire about our current inventory status. There's good information, though not on grading, here: http://www.deckspecialists.com/ipe_report.htm - there's a good list of characteristics and comparisons with other wood. This site: http://www.ironwoods.com/ironwoods_ipe.html has some grading info: The difference is in the grade Our Ipe is available in multiple hardwood grades, including: * Architectural – Mixed grain, Premium Clear All Heart; Timber Holdings Intl. hand-selected, available air-dried or dry-buffed. * Commercial – Mixed grade, typically graded to one better face. * Utility – This grade usually contains an unlimited amount or type of defect. The wood may service just as well as the higher grades but it’s not as pretty. Can contain limited sapwood, wormhole and skip. For additional information on this species, its availability and our fabrication services, contact Timber Holdings Intl. By the way, I just Googled to find this. I've used Ipe in the past, but couldn't find any of the information I previously collected. Richard Baxter, AIA, CSI Senior Member Username: rbaxter Post Number: 108 Registered: 12-2004 Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 02:36 pm:    I specified Ipê a few years ago for a platinum LEED project. (First one in Utah, actually [gloat, gloat]. The building loads up first on FFKR’s homepage, if you want to check it out). I didn’t have an extremely well-honed spec for it either, but I did not hear about any problems with it. All my Google searching led me to believe that Ipê was another name for “Brazilian Walnut”. (If you Google Brazilian walnut together with Ipê, you will see numerous websites that seem to support that assumption.) I put the words “Brazilian Walnut” in parenthesis after the word Ipê. You then should be able to specify it’s grading requirements similarly to how you would specify any other walnut paneling. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1098 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 03:34 pm:    Ipe has so many names that it's hard to keep track. It seems that each country/language has a different name. Evidently, "Ipe" means "hard wood" - and another name, as "Unregistered guest" hinted at, is "ironwood". And that is one of the major problems. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 05:54 pm:    John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA LEED AP I'm not sure if you're trying to control the species, or the grade. The "Architectural Woodwork Standards" book has visual grading standards for hardwood that are independent of the species. Of course, you need to have some sense of the market so you don't ask for something impracticable. These grades are different than the ones used for softwoods, which include both visual grades (for boards) and structural grades (for dimension lumber). You also expressed concern about the sustainability of the material that a contractor migh provide. I don't think this is species-dependent (though I don't know the market). The same species could probably be sustainably harvested, or not, depending on the source. In that case, you need the normal documentation such as FSC. But, is ipe available in FSC?? If not, you probably can't control the sustainability. If the sustainability is not really the issue, but appearance is (color, grain etc.), maybe it doesn't really matter what precise species as long as it is the ipe "group" and "matches the architects sample." David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1116 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 07:50 pm:    BTW, Ipe is also known as Brazilian Walnut, Bethabarra, Tajibo, Mataverde, and Pau Lope. Steve Taylor Senior Member Username: steveatwi Post Number: 30 Registered: 07-2008 Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 03:02 pm:    The listing for Ipe in the USDA Wood Engineering Handbook says; "The Iapacho group of the genus Tabebuia consists of about 20 species of trees and occurs in practically every Latin American country except Chile." It is also sold as Guayacan and Iapacho. Ipe is very hard and strong. It is also highly resistant to both decay and insects, making it ideal for exterior use. The heartwood is light to dark olive brown, and the sapwood is yellowish gray or gray brown. I would suggest that all heartwood be specified for uniformity of color. Most Ipe I have seen has been quarter sawn; which would be ideal for siding. As with many exotic species the lumber that is imported is generally high grade, with very few defects. Nevertheless, I would suggest that you specify grade rules based on "Architectural Woodwork Standards" published by the Woodwork Institute, AWI, and AWMAC. Because "Architectural Woodwork Standards" provides grade rules for a limited number of species, we suggest that you specify that the AWS grade rules for a similar species be used. In this case I would suggest that you require that the Ipe meet the AWS grade rules for Honduras Mahogany. You may require Custom or Premium Grade. Premium Grade allows almost no "natural characteristics." Full disclosure, I am an employee of the Woodwork Institute and have an interest in promotion of "Architectural Woodwork Standards." Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1008 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 10:57 am:    David: I've done Steve Taylor's method before for something less exotic than Ipe but don't remember what the wood was. (some sort of Beech, I think) anyway, in your specs under grading standards, put in "for grading standards use AWI grading rules for Honduras Mahogany" , custom (or whatever) grade." That language was easily enforceable and understandable by anyone who was qualified to bid the job. Steve Taylor Senior Member Username: steveatwi Post Number: 31 Registered: 07-2008 Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 01:48 pm:    Thank you Anne. Since the AWI and Woodwork Institute now share the AWS the preferred language would be; "'Architectural Woodwork Standards' grade rules for Honduras Mahogany, [Custom][Premium] Grade." (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 02:46 pm:    As a side note, isn't it nice to have AWI, WI, and AWMAC working out of one book? Especially for those of us who do projects all over place. George Everding Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 96 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 01:51 pm:    Did this land in anyone else's email box today? Towering over forty stories above downtown Manhattan, General Woodcraft, Inc. of New London, CT has recently completed the acquisition and supply of Mataverde® Certified Green Ipe for a major office building construction project. Don't know what "Certified Green" means, but contact: www.mataverdedecking.com Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1024 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 06:18 pm:    Lisa: what is it you're trying to say? What is towering over forty stories above Manhattan? General Woodcraft? Mataverde Green Ipe? huh? Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 97 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:53 am:    Yes, it's an Ipe deck forty stories over Manhatten, but alas, without an endless pool. Just trying to share another source for Ipe information.