Plastic Laminate as Wall Finish

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Author Message John Hunter Senior Member Username: johnhunter Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 06:33 pm:    There has been some interest expressed in my firm in applying plastic laminate directly to gypsum board for use as a wall finish. They have no interest in Panolam's FRL which I understand to be designed for direct installation, but are particularly interested in products that are metal type such as Chemetal. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of application? Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 394 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 07:02 pm:    When I was with my firm on the East Coast, they actually did that, except it was applied to a plywood substrate - I wouldn't recommend applying directly to gypsum board. Main problem is that if it get hit, it may chip and/or crack. Rich Gonser AIA CSI CCCA Senior Member Username: gonserarch Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 07:24 pm:    I just went through this in a tower in SF. We ended up using one of Marlite's Designer wall systems. This kind of set up has all the transition details worked out and is replaceable. They have quite a wide range of materials. You can use your own laminate. We almost used Techlam pocelain panels as a more impervious and harder finish. Either one of these can be glued to the gyp board. David E Lorenzini Senior Member Username: deloren Post Number: 102 Registered: 04-2000 Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 07:47 pm:    I agree with Richard. When I was with the firm he is now working for, we had a requirement for scratch-proof surfaces on all the walls in three high schools. We considered plastic laminate, since Marlite did not pass the knife test. The problem was that gypboard will curl if you only surface one side. Surfacing both sides was not an option we wanted to deal with. We worked with a company named Laminart to create a panel of 1/8-inch thick luan surfaced on the face with a butcher block pattern and a backer sheet on the back. These panels were appled over the gypsum board with J-trim. The top aligned with the top of the hollow metal door frames and the wall lockers had sloping tops to the same height, thus eliminating any cutting. That was 37 years ago, and I bet they are still there. David Lorenzini, FCSI, CCS Architectural Resources Co. Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 236 Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 07:53 pm:    http://www.laminart.com/ Colin Gilboy Publisher, 4specs.com 435.654.5775 - Utah 800.369.8008 Rich Gonser AIA CSI CCCA Senior Member Username: gonserarch Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 10:12 am:    Hi Dave, I'm a full-time independent consulting specifier now. See what you taught me!!!! LOL Rich George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 547 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 10:31 am:    We used to do this all the time in mall storefronts. But keep in mind that storefronts are closer to stage sets than to buildings - sometimes only a three or five year life span. Also, the p'lam was usually kept up high, or if it continued down, it always terminated in a ceramic tile base on the mall side for those pesky floor cleaners. That was twenty years ago for me, so I really don't speak from current product experience - putting over gyp board can be done, but I would come down on the side of putting it over wood panel products if you are looking for a permanent installation. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Cannon Design - St. Louis, MO Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 984 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 01:14 pm:    I agree with all the folks above -- plam is more flexible than wallboard is, so if there is any impact, the plam will bend a little -- but the wallboard will break. You need to put this on plywood, preferably -- a 1/4" plywood over wallboard should support it against most any impact. I've done this on and off over the years in back of house areas in hospitals, hotels and convention centers. The plastic laminate will get banged up, but it can be easily replaced every few years or so -- which is sort of the point of this installation. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1225 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2010 - 09:14 am:    Plastic laminate manufacturers are very specific about recommending p. lam. NOT be applied directly to gypsum board. There is a new product consisting of p. lam. laminated to fiberglass-reinforced plastic, but I can't remember who makes it. It's about 1/8 inch thick and can be laminated to drywall. Kevin Krieger (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 09:43 am:    I work as the Product Design & Development Manager for Marlite and was sent a link to this post by our CSI Spec writer, Richard Hird. I've been with Marlite for over 20 years. I invented, and am the patent-holder for Marlite's Surface Systems - MAP System, MAP Radius Wall and Myriad. We do a lot of HPL lamination for our products and have tested many different lamination scenarios in the development of products. I'll agree that there's absolutely nothing wrong with using HPL for walls, as many of our products are available with HPL faces. I'll list a few basics for you (there are no Marlite corporate secrets here, this is information that can be found through the Laminating Materials Association). We 2-ply, cold-press FRP and HPL to gyp-board for drop-in ceiling panels, and it works quite well. However, I wouldn't recommend the same thing for walls, as ball-impact testing reveals failure of the HPL. It's due to compression of the gypsum substrate, which allows the HPL surface to crack in a circular pattern. It's the sort of failure you'd expect if impacted by careless furniture moving, wheeled carts or even the corner of a heavy briefcase. Lamination of HPL to wood substrates is best for wall panels. The denser the better. Plywood is better than gyp-board, particleboard is better than plywood and MDF is typically the best choice. We provide all of these for various products and know well the issues and challenges involved. Three-ply lamination, with a balancing backer, is the industry standard and absolutely necessary for dimensional stability, to avoid warp or cupping. Thicker substrates are better. 3/4"+ core is ideal. As substrates thin, balance, moisture content, glue application, jobsite storage, installation conditions and post-application environments becomes increasingly critical. We've established standards for moisture content of our various substrates, and it must test within spec. before lamination. Typically it'll be high as received and we can use our coating line equipment to drive it down very quickly. The moisture content of the HPL and balancing backer is less critical, but we have it acclimate to plant conditions before lamination. We cold-press most products, using grooved rolls on Black Bros. spreaders,white PVA adhesive and pneumatic batch presses. As this is a water borne adhesive, mill thickness of the glue application can affect balance by increasing moisture driven into the core. Maintenance and set-up of the spreader is important, so applied mill thickness matches front-to-back and volume applied is controlled. Contact lamination (we high-volume spray) still requires the same control of core moisture content. If panel specifications requires a core of less than 1/2", mechanical fastening is required, to counter post-application (jobsite) failure from warp. However, it's recommended that allowances be made for expansion and contraction at perimeter conditions. My apologies for being long-winded, but I hope this helps. Kevin Krieger Marlite Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1079 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 10:54 am:    No apologies required. Thank you for the valuable and complete information. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 985 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, July 30, 2010 - 05:19 pm:    this is terrific information -- thank you. Harry Peck, CSI, CCS Intermediate Member Username: harryspec Post Number: 4 Registered: 05-2010 Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 09:14 am:    As a DIY homeowner, I used plastic laminate as the back splash filling the wall space from the counter top to the cabinet so the top and bottom edges are concealed and secured; light strips of construction adhesive were applied to the laminate to hold it in-place while installing the countertop and cabinets. Trimming exposed edges of the laminate is another carpenter's story. As a specifier, I discourage designers from doing this unless there is a way to frame the perimeter and be assure the laminate is secured. Keep in mind, the potential long shot failure of the gypsum board paper face delaminating and taking the laminate with it.