STONE FLOORING WARRANTY

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 724 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 02:15 pm:    A client wants us to include a warranty statement and period to cover defects and possible failures from the installation of natural stone flooring. I have argued that I can provide warranty statements for installation materials, but not for the stone itself, because it is a natural product. Am I mistaken, has anyone ever prepared a spec section that includes a warranty for stone itself? The client has not selected the actual stone, though I expect it will be travertine, marble, and/or granite. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1063 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 02:50 pm:    Hi, Jerome. My first question would be to the quarry and the fabricator. What sort of warranty would they provide? You're right, the stone is natural, but it is removed from its place by a particular mechanical, physical means that could be covered by a warranty - "it was sound when we removed it and cut it to the sizes specified." Covering "possible" failures could be difficult. The failures would need to be specific and would be dependent on the installer's expertise. Is this exterior or interior? You'd obviously have to limit a warranty to within the limits of the chosen stone itself. Travertine, marble and granite have some different characteristics. You'd already have specified that the stone complies with whatever ASTMs, slip resistance, water absorption, etc., so that a warranty on any of those characteristics would be redundant, yes? Would the Marble Institute of America have anything? Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 239 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 03:05 pm:    The only stone flooring "failure" that I can recall is when the OWNER of a past project ignored their own requirements and used the main lobby entry for move-in instead of the perfectly fine loading dock at the rear of the building. You can follow the path to the service elevator by looking for cracked stone tiles. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 965 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 03:21 pm:    the answer to this is: "this is not available in the industry". sometimes that's the only answer. remind the owner that there is a 1 year warranty on the work by contract; that any obvious flaws and problems will generally surface during that period and that after that, the owner's care and handling will have a greater effect than the actual products selected. Or... you can ASK for it, and then see how many of the bidders have deleted it as an "exception" to the scope of work. that would be the passive-aggressive way to handle it (but just as effective. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 360 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 04:47 pm:    Actually there is not a 1 year warranty on the work--at least per A201, there is a 1 year correction period, during which time the contractor is obligated to correct defects in the work. AIA A201, 3.5, covers the contractor's "general" warranty, which runs through the period of the applicable statute of limitations or repose. This is separate from the 1-year correction period, and also separate from special (extended) warranties from manufacturers, such as for roofing. Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: robert_w_johnson Post Number: 74 Registered: 03-2009 Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 05:28 pm:    In AIA A201 12.2.2.1, the one year correction period can be extended "by the terms of an applicable special warranty required by the Contract Documents." The extended warranty does not have to be a manufacturer's warranty. In fact, I don't believe A201 ever mentions the subject of a manufacturer's warranty. In the case of a work result using natural stone, you have the option of requiring a special warranty extending the one correction period if you want - you are not dependent upon a manufacturer's extended warranty. As Anne says, bidders can make it an exception to their bid or not bid because of the requirement. I have regularly required such a special extended 3-year warranty on stone flooring for many years. With a few exceptions (PVDF finish, insulated glass units, etc.), I very seldom specify manufactur's warranties which for the most part protect the manufacturers as much or more than they do the owner. I specify special warranties that extend the 1-year correction period on specific work results, usually including specific defects to be corrected. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 361 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 05:54 pm:    Bob: My comments were based on the commentary remarks in the AIA Commentary on A201, 2007. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 06:55 pm:    Robert, I would be very interested in seeing the language you use for a special extended warranty on stone flooring. Could you share this with the group? thanks Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 966 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 07:44 pm:    yes, I agree. I've typically found that any special warranties on stone flooring gets excised by the bidders. Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: robert_w_johnson Post Number: 75 Registered: 03-2009 Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 10:32 pm:    A. Special Warranty: Prepare and submit in accordance with Section 01 78 00. 1. Provide three year warranty stating labor and materials are in conformance with Specification requirements and to repair defects and work affected in connection with defects which develop within warranty period immediately after written notice is received. 2. Defects include, but are not limited to, spalling, loose stone, faulty sealant, cracking, splitting, deformation, improper setting (hollow sound when tapped with metal rod), and improper materials or workmanship. 3. Remedy includes labor, materials, equipment and services necessary to repair defect including removing and replacing superimposed work. Paul Gerber Senior Member Username: paulgerber Post Number: 16 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 11:22 pm:    OK, this may be a difference in locale (Canada vs. US) but in my Instructions to Bidders I list reasons why a Bid may be declared "informal" and one of them is qualifications. If an extended warranty is requested and a Subcontractor submits a Bid excluding it, the Owner is well within their rights to reject that Sub's bid and move on to the next low Bidder. My frustration is that sometimes the Project Architects in our office don't pay enough attention (or probably more accurately don't understand Contracts and Contract Law enough) when reviewing the Bid Form before the Contract is awarded. Then when I have to put on my CA hat I am left to deal with the electrician that thinks he should be getting paid $85/hr for extras when everyone is getting $65/hr. What really makes me shake my head is when a Contractor listens to a sub, like a hardware supplier who hasn't bothered to ask any questions during the Bid Period, who thinks there are components "missing" from the spec (when they obviously didn't read properly) and puts in a "hardware allowance" when there wasn't one called for in Division 1. Then the Project Architect (who in this instance isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer) asks me to issue a Post Bid Addendum to add a hardware allowance. When I do a little digging and after a call to the Contractor, I tell the estimator (obviously a fairly recent grad) that he was lucky I wasn't involved in the Bid analysis because I would have thrown his bid out as informal because of the qualification. After I pointed all the applicable information out in the ITB, I think he actually clued in; especially after I strongly suggested he may not want to do that in the future for any Bid he is working on. Ride it like you stole it!!! J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 425 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 03:30 pm:    The manufacturer of the stone does not give a warranty... The fabricator might give a warranty that covers fabrication processes (size tolerances, finish, etc.), and, of course, the installer may provide a warranty covering the installation, but if the Architect or the Owner has chosen a stone, they are responsible for that selection including the understanding that there may be natural variations which may result in undesirable product. The general warranty statements in AIA A 201 (yes, there are warranties) state that the Contractor warrants that the products will be of good quality except for defects inherent in the product. This is an unlimited warranty and if properly used with the 1-year correction period, may be quite useful to the Owner. When the attorneys try to craft a stronger, more explicit 1-year warranty, the result is less protection for the Owner, in my view. As for the stone? Go to church and pray for a material warranty. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 03:06 pm:    Robert, Thanks for sharing the language you use for extented warranties for stone flooring. I have several comments and observations I'd like to share. This doesn't look much like a warranty to me at all, but a certification "stating labor and materials are in conformance with Specification requirements" and duplication of various portions of the General Conditions and Division 01. It also appears to be a combination installation and material warranty ("faulty sealant"). I think your special warranty is unclear and unenforceable. What form of warranty have you ever received from a contractor to satisfy this requirement? My assumption is that you are including this to give the Owner recourse against a party (the installer) not in a direct contractual relationship with the Owner. If this is correct then your language needs to specifically reflect this. MasterSpec uses "Special Installer's Warranty" as the paragraph heading for these types of extended warranties, and includes example warranties that are recommended to be appended to the spec section. Without explicitly stating what the warranty needs to be, you are likely to get whatever the Contractor wants to give you, along with the usual limitations and exclusions found in every manufacturer's warranty. As has already been pointed out, the 1 year correction period does not remove the obligation from the Contractor to repair defective work within the period established (locally) by statutes of repose and/or limitation. Your language basically reiterates, unnecessarily, this requirement. Because stone is a natural material, I find it very difficult to believe that the Owner has any recourse against the Contractor if failures are due to the material. After all, it's the designer that selects the stone. If Contractor installs material as specified, any defect in the material is the designer's problem, not the Contractor's. I would recommend that, at a minimum, stone is carefully specified to meet an ASTM standard (if one exists for the type and variety of stone selected). As stated in the PRM: "The subject of warranties is as technical and confusing as that of insurance. Although most A/Es have learned to avoid specifying insurance requirements, it is still common practice for A/Es to specify warranties. Those who do so on behalf of the owner must be as knowledgeable about warranties as they are about the physical properties of the products and materials they specify."