Structural Glass Veneer

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Author Message Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 809 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 08:17 pm:    The IBC has a section on glass veneer (Section 1405.11) that is referred to within the section as "structural glass veneer." I tried to find manufacturers of such a product, but my internet search brings up a Preservation Brief from the National Park Service, which indicates that it was prevalent in the 1930's and 1940's and fell from favor in the middle of the century. Glass veneer wasn't mentioned in the UBC, so I assume this is a hold over from one or both of the other two former model codes--probably the BOCA National Building Code. Is this type of product even manufactured anymore? If so, who? Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 43 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 09:23 am:    Do you think they mean the kind of glass and polycarbonate laminate assembly that I just put in a psychiatric hospital specification? Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1077 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 09:51 am:    I seem to remember a good number of commercial buildings here in Cincinnati that were faced with colored glass panels maybe upwards of 2-foot square [maybe 1/4"+ thick]. They were "stuck" to masonry [usually red tile] backup with globs of mastic [don't recall the type]. I would guess it was a good material for varied color, low maintenance [no repainting; self washing], no fading and cheap[??] I would think the disfavor lies in the breakage factor of anything from merely leaning against the material to some kind of impact damage. Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1078 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 10:01 am:    Follow-up; Appears the glass cladding was an art deco motif http://www.flickr.com/photos/71209115@N00/62047338 and with other less ornate uses of just flat panels in a grid formation against the masonry-- low-rise use. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 339 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 10:17 am:    In the 1990 BOCA code (which is the oldest edition I have), Section 2103.7 is titled "Structural glass veneers". Th essence of what is in the BOCA 1990 edition is also in IBC, but the IBC wording is much expanded and more detailed than is BOCA. The wording for structural glass veneer was unchanged in the subsequent editions (1993 through 1999) of BOCA. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 21 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 10:25 am:    I'm aware of at least one modern system that might be in this category, although I wouldn't call it "structural" in the sense that it is load-bearing: Hunter Douglas "QuadroClad Facades" offers a variety of frameless monolithic coated glass, metal & other panel materials inserted in a substructure to form thin-veneer facades. The ones I have spec'd were designed as ventilated rainscreen exterior cladding. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS Wilson Consulting Inc Narberth PA Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 810 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 07:58 pm:    Dave: Thanks for the BOCA reference--that is what I was assuming. Jeffery: It sounds like the product you mention is the modern version of what the building code indicates, which is glass on mastic. Whether it's attached via mastic or integrated into a metal framing system (not curtain wall), what would be the most appropriate MasterFormat location? - Under 07 42 00 "Wall Panels"? - Under 07 46 00 "Siding"? Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1081 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 07:13 am:    Why not, maybe, 07 40 00, Wall Cladding? Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 811 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 09:12 am:    07 40 00 is already assigned to "Roofing and Siding Panels" Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1082 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 10:19 am:    Sorry-- just looked in back of MF04. How about using 07 42 53 and create a new Section of Wall Panels for glass? [similar to what goes on in 07 44 00] Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 812 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 11:01 am:    For a Level 3 number that would work. Even 07 46 53 would seem to work. I guess the real question is: is there any significant difference between "wall panels" and "siding"? In MF04, the explanation column indicates that siding includes "panels." More philosophic is whether a system such as this could be specified in Division 09--similar to Division 09's portland cement plastering--since it's more like a finish that can be used on interior and exterior substrates. Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1083 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 11:22 am:    If panels and siding are interchangable, then extrapolate that "siding is usually long narrow pieces of material", where as "panels are more unitized into pieces that more approach square from 2x2 feet to 4x8".?????? And since this criteria has been established I would not go the 09 route which is usually material that is not formed per se, and is applied not installed; molded to shape, spread, etc.. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 11:47 am:    I actually used 084429 "Glazed Cladding Systems" (my invention) because it seems more like a "glazed assembly" than "wall panels" -- although I can see the argument for the latter: The system most resembles "composite wall panels" using the rainscreen-principle installation method. I have also used 074245 "Phenolic Wall Panels" (for Trespa systems) and 074264 "Terra Cotta Cladding Systems" both of which have similarities to the QuadroClad Facades. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 920 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 05:56 pm:    Ron- here is a description from some old PPG literature: "the architectural glass industry became especially creative, introducing a series of new glass products known as structural glass. Used predominately for wall surfacing, these now familiar products included glass building blocks, reinforced plate glass, and pigmented structural glass. Pigmented structural glass, popularly known under such trade names as Carrara Glass, Sani Onyx (or Rox), and Vitrolite, revolutionized the business and rapidly became a favorite building material of the period's architects and designers. " so, its a variety of products. today, there additional structural glass panels -- I've used Profilit -- and they meet even west coast seismic codes. Cost a fortune, though.