| Author |
Message |
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI
Senior Member
Username: rliebing
Post Number: 973
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 11:30 am: |    |
Any experience with and suggestions for an anti-graffti sealer for concrete brick masonry [that is not "concrete block brick shapes", but a brick like product]?
Thanks |
Jerry Tims AIA, CSI
Senior Member
Username: jtims
Post Number: 67
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 12:12 pm: | |
I have no experience with the particular product you're talking about, but I'd be willing to bet that Prosoco has a product that will meet your needs. |
Vivian Volz, RA, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: vivianvolz
Post Number: 116
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 12:29 pm: | |
Take a look at Tag-Guard, by BASF, and Prosoco's penetrating anti-graffiti sealer. |
Curt Norton, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: curtn
Post Number: 143
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 12:35 pm: | |
I would highly recommend doing a test panel, applying products that you want to test and apply graffiti. Sacrficial products are often difficult to blend in with the original after cleaning. Sacrificial and penetrating sealers can both discolor or change the sheen of your veneer.
In addition, you obviously need a breathable product. Don't forget to get recommendations from the veneer mfg. |
Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: rlmat
Post Number: 325
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 10:53 am: | |
I've had good experience with the ProSoCo products for both Brick & Concrete.
Contact the rep for the best advice on which product to use.
I currently specify their Sure Klean Blok-Guard & Graffiti Control II |
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI
Senior Member
Username: rliebing
Post Number: 974
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 11:25 am: | |
Little conflicted!
Ms. Volz suggests the penetrating type. Mr. Norton seems to go that way too, as he seems to indicate that surface applied material is good but cannot be blended back after cleaning. And Mr. Matteo uses the surface material.
Not asking you to make my decision, but am leaning toward the penetrating application, as longer lasting [prognosis is cleaning may be frequent]and no worry with re-doing, once we resolve the final appearance [after its appication] |
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 860
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 12:15 pm: | |
This was on the Linkedin news email this morning: Protectosil ANTIGRAFFITI by EVONIK DEGUSSA CORPORATION. Might be worth checking out. (It's listed as being in GreenFormat) |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 12:02 pm: | |
You might consider a silicone rubber product like Professional Products of Kansas' (PPK) Professional Water Sealant, which provides a non-sacrificial layer of protection.
It'll provide water protection in addition to graffiti protection. And my understanding is that of the three types of sealers: silanes, siloxanes and silicone rubber, silicone's protection is superior - unless you might possibly want to 'paint' the masonry in the future (won't adhere). It lasts 3-5 times longer, and can bridge hairline cracks. |
Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: rlmat
Post Number: 326
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 01:31 pm: | |
What ever product you end up using, make sure it allows the brick masonry to breathe and not trap water/moisture behind the brick.
There was an engineer at Glen Gery Brick that was always emphatic about that. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 01:56 pm: | |
Penetrating is your best choice in areas subject to significant annual precipitation (30 inches or more per year, says I) over substrates that are exposed to weather (deep overhangs and recesses do not necessitate use of this type of sealer). Using a film-former in anything but an arid/dry climate is going to be a potential problem for you due to accumulation of moisture in masonry over time and adverse effect on film-former coating.
I have specified ProSoCo products, but lately have settled on Dugussa Protectosil as a better system. I also like Fabrikem. |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 11:05 am: | |
Like Lynn and 'Unregistered Guest', I prefer Evonik Degussa Protectosil AntiGraffiti as well. While not usually a fan of silanes and siloxanes, the Protectosil line has provided very good results for graffiti protection. Pay close attention to application requirements including curing times and drying times after cleaning or repointing. Their CIT product seems to provide very good anti-corrosion protection as well. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 11:13 am: | |
Anyone else have experience with silicone? |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 01:58 pm: | |
I don't know of any silicone coatings that are vapor permeable. Additionally, most silicone coatings are just that, coatings applied to the face of the surface that change the appearance of the wall.
Using a vapor permeable, penetrating product seems to work best in most applications.
The only vapor permeable coatings I'm aware of would be acrylic based systems. I don't know of any acrylic coatings that have graffiti resistant systems. Texcote has a urethane-based graffiti coating that they claim is 'breathable' though they don't list any permeability levels. No mention in their literature whether the primer required is vapor permeable. In 32 years I've never heard of an effective urethane coating that was vapor permeable when applied at full recommended thickness. This might be the first. |
Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP
Senior Member
Username: redseca2
Post Number: 173
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 03:32 pm: | |
You need to do mock-ups before you decide on any of these products.
The products mentioned all can have very surprising visual effects on different substrate materials. A product that is virtually impossible to see on one material leaves a mottled, totally unacceptable slimey gloss on another material.
Our specifications list at least 4 products, and we require samples of each one on the actual substrate material, with 1/2 of the panel masked off so that it untreated. You need to get them out in daylight an look at them from every angle because some of them act like a polarizing filter on a camera lens - walk 90-degrees around your sample and it goes from light grey to shiny gun metal gray, and so on. |
4specs.com Home Page