| Author |
Message |
Tracy Van Niel, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: tracy_van_niel
Post Number: 320
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 07:10 am: |    |
Question for those in the know ... just how often is MasterFormat going to be updated from here on out?
We bought MF2010 last year and now we have to turn around and buy a whole 'nuther MasterFormat for $119 because it's been updated a year later? Would the Institute consider offering some kind of discount or download to the people who bought MF2010 for the specific divisions updated in 2011?
Tracy L. Van Niel, FCSI, CCS |
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 937
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 11:24 am: | |
I asked that question at CONSTRUCT last year and the answer was essentially they didn't really know.
I agree that shelling out $119 each year is asking too much of people, even if the product is available online.
I suggest a 3-year cycle to match that of building codes and most industry standards. For example, the next published edition would have been the 2013. Those who purchase a hardcopy of MasterFormat would get a 3-year subscription to MasterFormat.com. For the interim years, a supplement to the previous published hardcopy could be downloaded at no cost from MasterFormat.com. The supplement would list only the changes and not a complete copy of MasterFormat.
What I had done prior to the 2010 edition was to check for approved changes on MasterFormat.com and insert them by hand in my old copy of MasterFormat 2004.
Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
www.specsandcodes.com |
Robert W. Johnson
Senior Member
Username: robert_w_johnson
Post Number: 143
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 11:41 am: | |
First I would suggest that this discussion would be better placed on the CSI LinkedIn and/or CSI forums where more CSI members could participate.
Second, I am sure Ron is going to take care of the problem as he goes on the CSI Board! |
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 938
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 11:55 am: | |
Good suggestion, Bob.
I know I can do the LinkedIn part, but CSI Forums has been acting a little eratic for me; however, I'll give it a shot there, too, and see what happens.
As a board newbie, I don't know how much clout, if any, I will have, but here goes...
Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
www.specsandcodes.com |
Helaine K. Robinson CSI CCS CCCA SCIP
Senior Member
Username: hollyrob
Post Number: 374
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 11:56 am: | |
I suspect that more CSI members are on the 4specs .com discussion board than the CSI Forums. |
G. Wade Bevier, CCS, LEED-AP BD+C, CSI, SCIP, USGBC
Senior Member
Username: wbevier
Post Number: 27
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 12:09 pm: | |
I hope CSI is not intending to use the MF2011 as another new resource reference for the Fall CDT exam. The CDT study material and resource list will be published sometime in the next few weeks and we are already converting all the exam preparation materials over to the Project Delivery Practice Guide which has already been announced.
Currently the CCS and CCCA will be using the PRM for the Fall exam. CCPR may be going on hiatus butthat is yet to be announced. |
J. Peter Jordan (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 12:56 pm: | |
My understanding is that MasterFormat is in a continuous state of update as published on MasterFormat.com. Does With access to that site, I don't intend to purchase hardcopy. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 02:12 pm: | |
Mr. Geren will testify that annual editions in the building code business, didn't work and led to a maze of codes, chaos and confusion.
Not a good organizational process-- becoming a publishing house almost "forcing" purchases, to increase revenue and augment your "specifications system"!; when so much else needs doing. |
David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1172
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 07:44 pm: | |
Maybe CSI should call the revised MasterFormat "MF2004.11"? |
Dale Hurttgam, NCARB, AIA,LEED AP, CSI
Senior Member
Username: dwhurttgam
Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 09:38 am: | |
I don't know if I should leave this little secret out of the bag - it might dissappear.
If you do a web search for Canada Masterformat 2011, a PDF of Masterformat 2011 issued on March 29, 2011 comes up. Not an April Fool's joke. |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 473
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 10:19 am: | |
The free pdf doesn't surprise me, as MF04 was available in two versions: a free pdf that had just the numbers and titles, and the full version, with index and all of the "includes", "may include", and other stuff to make it easier to use. The free version also is available
on the CSI website. |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 834
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 10:31 am: | |
Actually, when you do the search in google, the free pdf does come from the CSI web site (not CSI Canada).
Here is the download link that the google search returns...
http://www.csinet.org/numbersandtitles
that being said, I actually can't find that file when looking through the CSI site directly, I only get this link on a google search for "canada masterformat 2011"
Google brings this up for me as the second suggestion which it lists as...
[PDF] MasterFormat® Numbers & Titles
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
MasterFormat® 2011 Update publication available for purchase from the Construction Specifications. Institute (CSI) and Construction Specifications Canada ...
www.csinet.org/numbersandtitles - Similar
If I do a search just for "masterformat 2011" I don't get this link.
William
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate
WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX |
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1229
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 10:37 am: | |
Verrry interestink... |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 474
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 10:50 am: | |
If you click on the big home page picture when it shows MasterFormat you'll go directly to the page where you can download the MF11 pdf. Not all that intuitive, as many websites have billboard pictures that don't do anything, but it's there. Searching for "masterformat 2011" also works.
It isn't always easy to find things on the Institute site, though it seems to be getting better. I've searched for many things I know are there and couldn't find them, so when I do find something of interest I'll bookmark it. |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 835
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 10:52 am: | |
hahah, super Sheldon.
I can see that some of us are really busy this morning! Must be spring!
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate
WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 475
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 10:54 am: | |
I just tried "masterformat 2011" in Google and got the link to the free version; it's the fourth link. |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 476
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 10:56 am: | |
Too busy is the problem, William. I couldn't decide which fire to put out first, so I visited 4specs. |
Robert W. Johnson
Senior Member
Username: robert_w_johnson
Post Number: 144
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 11:29 am: | |
For a list of changes in the 2011 Update go to MasterFormat.com:
* Register or login.
* Open "Revisions" - have patience, it is pretty slow as a manipulative data base file.
* Under "Show": Click 2011.
* Under "Sort": Click MasterFormat Number.
You will now have a listing of the revisions in the 2011 Update listed by MasterFormat number. I count a little over 200 changes. About 120 of them are in Division 43 - Process Gas and Liquid Handling, Purification, and Storage Equipment. About 70 of them are in Divisions 00-32.
After opening "Revisions" at MasterFormat.com, you can also click on "Numbers & Titles reference (PDF)" to the far right to open a PDF file of the current titles and numbers as of the 2011 update. The same PDF file is also available on the CSI website under "Standards and Formats", "MasterFormat": http://www.csinet.org/Home-Page-Category/Formats/MasterFormat.aspx. Scroll down to find the link to the PDF file. This is the same location on the CSI website as Sheldon's link above. |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 477
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 11:34 am: | |
Don't you hate manipulative data base files? I wish they'd just do what they're told. |
Robert W. Johnson
Senior Member
Username: robert_w_johnson
Post Number: 145
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 11:58 am: | |
For those who hate manipulative data base files (must be a Minnesota thing!), you can also get a PDF file of a matrix of the changes from 2010 to 2011 at the CSI website, under "MasterFormat 2011, Get it in the CSI Store?", under "Click here for a listing of the changes to the MasterFormat 2010 Update in the MasterFormat 2011 Update": http://www.csinet.org/mf2011matrix. |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 407
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 12:01 pm: | |
didn't Minnesota invent the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory? the MMPI has some of the weirdest questions - I still remember them from my time in the home...I mean University...I'd repeat them here but this is a Family show. |
George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: geverding
Post Number: 589
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 12:44 pm: | |
New MasterFormat???? Just as long as hardware is still 08710, my new hardware buddies will be happy.
George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA
Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies
St. Louis, MO |
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1230
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 12:47 pm: | |
And don't let them forget to reference Division 16 for electrical connections |
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 939
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 01:33 pm: | |
George, I thought door hardware was in 8C?
Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
www.specsandcodes.com |
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